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RadRacer203

Orline Mustang trouble

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On 2/12/2018 at 4:43 PM, factory said:

new gaskets are the probably best solution if they are damaged.

Making sure they go back on the same way they came off is important too. The hole for the carb is different than the hole on the intake, plus the flat sides need to be matched together. Before I had a parts stash with replacement gaskets, a successful technique used to "resurface" them was to squish the gaskets one at a time in a vice between two pieces of FLAT & SMOOTH 1/4 inch thick steel plates.This worked twice. It was only needed because the previous owner installed the gaskets backwards and distorted both sides of them so there was not a flat surface on either side them.

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I just pulled the carb off again and it looks like there was a small air leak between the top and bottom of the carb, and the fuel pickup was clogged. I shot some wd-40 through because it was all I had laying around and it's flowing better. How much fuel should be flowing? I'm getting about 1 drop per second with the gas cap on. I've got some new gaskets on the way so I'll wait to put it back together till then

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Also, there seemed to be quite a bit of oil coming out the exhaust when I had it on its side. It's most likely just the unburned residual oil but there was a lot. I'm going to be using some Royal Purple high performance 2 stroke oil (really good stuff), but can I safely use a leaner oil mix in it so I have less unburned oil coming out the exhaust?

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I suspect the WD-40 has only cleaned a tiny part of the filter, does it still drip out slowly with the gas cap removed?

See this post for another method of cleaning the tank filter;

 

Excess oil & fuel usually does come out of the exhaust if there is any trouble with starting or keeping an engine running.

The recommended fuel/gas & oil mix is 32:1 using modern 2 stroke oils, what ratio have you been mixing to?

Is the Royal Purple oil mineral or synthetic based? I have been using the standard mineral based Stihl 2 stroke oil (red color) that was recommended by someone that uses chainsaws regularly, just don't try the synthetic version (green color) as it doesn't work well at all, see this thread for more;

 

David

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I'll check the oil in the morning. I know it's not synthetic, but I don't know the details. I've been running a little on the rich side of 32:1 right now since it's what I had laying around. I filled the tank and left the gas dripping while I ate dinner and when I came back it was flowing maybe 2-3 drops per second. I think that's pretty good. These little buggers are tough to get working right.

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2 hours ago, RadRacer203 said:

I'll check the oil in the morning. I know it's not synthetic, but I don't know the details. I've been running a little on the rich side of 32:1 right now since it's what I had laying around. I filled the tank and left the gas dripping while I ate dinner and when I came back it was flowing maybe 2-3 drops per second. I think that's pretty good. These little buggers are tough to get working right.

You are absolutely right, these things are about as finicky as it gets and it seems that every one has it's own personality. I have had used and abused units run like a top and NOS units run like dogs. Go figure...

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Just rebuilt the carb for the 3rd time, but with new gaskets (thanks Joe!). Looks like those leaks are fixed but it's still not running. I think this time I just had the jet open too far and flooded it though so I'm hopeful. What's a good starting point to adjust the jet from? I turned it out 1.5 turns to start with when it flooded

And what type of foam should I use in the air filter? I just have it off for now until I get the saw running right

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19 hours ago, RadRacer203 said:

I'll check the oil in the morning. I know it's not synthetic, but I don't know the details. I've been running a little on the rich side of 32:1 right now since it's what I had laying around. I filled the tank and left the gas dripping while I ate dinner and when I came back it was flowing maybe 2-3 drops per second. I think that's pretty good. These little buggers are tough to get working right.

 

I can only find synthetic oils on the Royal Purple site;

http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/

Is this the one you have?

http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/hp-2c-2-cycle-engine-oil/

I guess you will let us know if it works or not.
 

1 hour ago, RadRacer203 said:

Just rebuilt the carb for the 3rd time, but with new gaskets (thanks Joe!). Looks like those leaks are fixed but it's still not running. I think this time I just had the jet open too far and flooded it though so I'm hopeful. What's a good starting point to adjust the jet from? I turned it out 1.5 turns to start with when it flooded

And what type of foam should I use in the air filter? I just have it off for now until I get the saw running right

 

If the engine is getting flooded the spark-plug will be getting clogged with oil.

 

Here is the carb needle setting information from the carb repair tutorial sticky thread;

 

Carb Setting

These posts are from the old forum thread for setting the carb needle.

 

Original post by Webhead.

"1 and 1/4 out for starting. I have had units run good between 3/4 and a full 2 turn
out."

 

Original post by usedtoolman.

 "If I recall there is one more factor on the needle setting. If you have a slotted needle
the setting is 1/2 turn as opposed to 1-1/4 for the non grooved needle."

 

You can cut a piece from any filter intended for small engines that is the correct thickness to fit, I have been cutting circles (some chainsaws had other shaped filters) out of this pre filter foam I got from the local lawnmower/grounds maintenance/small tool repair shop.

 

SAM_5783e.jpg.4c4da977fbd6ae83b1907ebf87918261.jpg

 

Leaving the old filter foam off is better for getting it running if you don't have a replacement yet, as this tends to happen. Pretty nasty stuff if it gets into the engine.

 

SAM_5781e.jpg.9627c2bd71aa7a7315cad02f00c35ed3.jpg

 

David

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Thanks, that helps a lot. I'll clean off the plug and try again tomorrow. It's still leaking out the inlet of the carb a little bit. Any ideas? I know the check valve is working. I tested it blowing into it through a hose and no air came out do I'm not sure why it would still be leaking

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Ok, I'm starting to get pretty fed up with this thing. It's got plenty of fuel, which is actually dripping out the carb. again. I cleaned the plug and it popped once but didn't catch and didn't restart. I tried a little starting fluid and it won't even give so much as a pop with that.

Crank seals?

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Crap. I think I'll try a couple more things and if it still doesn't work I'll just put it away for later. I'd like to try and gap the plug a little tighter than factory. Sounds a little like what my '37 Waterwitch outboard was doing when the plug gap was too big

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New old stock original seals are almost as hard to find as rocking horse droppings and there is no guarantee how long they will last.

The originals seals have a V shaped section & have to be fitted the correct way round. The only alternate we have is to fit O rings of the correct size from one of those assortment kits, the diameter of the crankshaft & back-shaft changed to a bigger size for the later engines.

Also don't forget to change the O ring for the screw that goes through the fuel intake on the induction housing, it usually falls out without being noticed.

 

I seem to recall someone having a problem with an O&R engine sucking all the gearbox oil through one of the seals, it was very smoky indeed.

 

What carb needle setting did you have for the last attempt (where fuel was dripping from the carb)? Also was the spark-plug immediately oiled up again when it only fired the once? And finally but probably unrelated to the current problem, are you using the CJ14 or CJ8 spark-plug?.

 

David

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Which o ring are you talking about for the "fuel intake on the induction housing"? I don't quite know where you're talking about.

If the seal is bad, it's definitely on the side opposite the flywheel. The seal under the flywheel is in good shape still. I have the carb with the slot in the needle, so I had it about half a turn out. The spark plug had a little bit of oil after it popped the once but no more than I might expect. And I'm using the cj14 right now until I can get to the store to get a cj8.

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3 hours ago, RadRacer203 said:

Which o ring are you talking about for the "fuel intake on the induction housing"? I don't quite know where you're talking about.

 

The picture below shows the O ring I was talking about, it seals where the screw that passes through the induction housing intake that is behind the carb, it often drops out unnoticed.

 

SAM_18924b.jpg.0d834304040d207bba876c1fe4800561.jpg

 

The arrow shown in the picture below indicates where the screw passes through the induction housing intake.

 

SAM_19029b.jpg.19dc16d62e14a09e7155eb70e9f60101.jpg

 

There are two seals on the back-shaft (PTO) and another in the gearbox output shaft (that shouldn't cause the problems you are having, it would just leak oil out around the output shaft for the chain sprocket).

 

David

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I don't think I've ever had to take that cover off before but I guess I have to now to check that and the crank seal. I think there's gas dripping out the carb because the check valve isn't sealing very well still. Are there any known problems with that? I made sure it was sealing well on the bench before I put it back on, but when I leave it sit, a puddle starts underneath it

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8 minutes ago, RadRacer203 said:

I don't think I've ever had to take that cover off before but I guess I have to now to check that and the crank seal. I think there's gas dripping out the carb because the check valve isn't sealing very well still. Are there any known problems with that? I made sure it was sealing well on the bench before I put it back on, but when I leave it sit, a puddle starts underneath it

 

Do you mean this check valve? Which can sometimes cause problems or fail completely on early engines.

 

SAM_19032b.jpg.92b87a767c011bcecdb9f59b0c391e87.jpg

SAM_19030c.jpg.6356367b87e30c927fb05aaeee0f61d0.jpg

 

Or the check ball in the carb diaphragm bowl? Which can stick closed even after cleaning (but that doesn't sound like it would cause too much fuel/gas to pass through, unless stuck open or the spring is missing).

Note there are two different sizes of this check ball depending on the age of the carb (earlier ones had the small one shown below).

 

SAM_3097a.jpg.30d6019303c46d0436b0dc29230a07b5.jpg

 

I definitely would check these first before taking the engine apart, if you do strip the engine do prepared for the bearing rollers that can drop out (have something underneath to catch them).

 

David

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From what I can see, the fuel keeps flowing when the engine is not running, and more than would be left in the diaphragm area, so what I think it's the little ball under the diaphragm sticking open. The check valve between the carb halves seems to be fine as far as I can tell. I checked it all over before reassembling the last couple times, and all seemed to be fine on the bench.

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