Anglo Traction

Hayter Osprey

70 posts in this topic

I'm a bit confused by the wiring harness illustrated in your last post as it appears to have a two pin socket with one wire possibly being an earth. The normal set up for a Magnetron coil is one wire from the blade connector on the coil running to the engine stop switch on the throttle plate. That said, the coil in your post is unlike any BS coil that I've seen, but as four years have passed since retirement, perhaps things have changed. None of the wires that disappear under the flywheel are needed with a Magnetron coil but it may be easier to either disconnect the stop wire from the old condenser and take it straight to the blade / spade connector on the new coil or cut it off close to the points enclosure and do the same.. That way you don't have to make any changes at the stop switch end.

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10 hours ago, Wristpin said:

I'm a bit confused by the wiring harness illustrated in your last post as it appears to have a two pin socket with one wire possibly being an earth. The normal set up for a Magnetron coil is one wire from the blade connector on the coil running to the engine stop switch on the throttle plate. That said, the coil in your post is unlike any BS coil that I've seen, but as four years have passed since retirement, perhaps things have changed. None of the wires that disappear under the flywheel are needed with a Magnetron coil but it may be easier to either disconnect the stop wire from the old condenser and take it straight to the blade / spade connector on the new coil or cut it off close to the points enclosure and do the same.. That way you don't have to make any changes at the stop switch end.

Many thanks for the reply. In the box there is a set of instructions which reads as follows: (I hope I have received the right part)

The stop switch assembly has 2 wires. 1 with a ring terminal and 1 with no terminal.

Connect the spade terminal to the spade terminal on the armature.

Select the appropriate wire for the type of stop terminal the engine uses.

Cut off the remaining wire and discard.

Tape the end of the wire with electrical tape.

 

So what I have done so far is connected the spade to spade on the new coil. I was hoping that I could just connect the  the ring wire on the new coil to the body of the machine which mirrors the old one. But I still have to cut the wire that is currently connected to the old coil as I don't think I can disconnect it  without trying to give it a  good Yank and hoping for the best or remove the flywheel which I am trying to avoid. And as you say I may have to connect this wire to the new coil. I just hope that the other end of the connection is ok.

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Many thanks for the help and look forward to hearing from you. Hopefully I can this done tomorrow and see if it will fire up!!!

On 23/04/2017 at 2:57 PM, Wristpin said:

By the look of the image your machine has points ignition, no trigger module between the left leg of the coil armature and the coil itself.

Plug caps. Comments have been made about these being the likely cause of failure. This is only likely to be the case if the original BS connector has been removed and replaced with an aftermarket cap. Again, from your image you appear to have the original connector and there's not a lot that can go wrong with those. Sometimes they have a simple rubber boot. 

The only exterior things left to check is the kill switch on the throttle plate or the kill wire that goes to it. If all is OK there, you have a choice, either remove  the flywheel and examine the points etc , or find a later BS Magnetron coil ( with suitable leg spacing)  and fit that in place of yours - a ten minute job and a direct replacement using your existing flywheel without the need to remove it.

Personally I would do the latter as they are 99.9% reliable and obviate  the need to ever remove the flywheel again.

 

 

On 07/05/2017 at 7:24 PM, Wristpin said:

The thin wire from the coil low tension windings goes under the flywheel to connect to the contact breaker points and condenser. (Under a tin cover) . Another thin wire comes from the points to the kill switch which is positioned adjacent to were the throttle cable is anchored. The action of closing the throttle past the idle causes  that switch to connect the coil and points to earth , thereby killing the ignition. 

 

On 06/06/2017 at 11:26 PM, Wristpin said:

It's a straight forward job. The Briggs Magnetron  kit illustrated includes a new flywheel key and a blanking plug for the points breaker plunger hole. Obviously, to fit those the flywheel has to be removed .  I have to own up to fitting many Magnetron coils without removing the flywheel and leaving the original key and points assembly in place with no apparent ill effects over a number of years.

The choice is yours.

 

On 07/06/2017 at 4:53 PM, Wristpin said:

The new coil armature requires setting up as follows. Turn the flywheel so that the magnets are furthest away from the coil . Pull the coil as far from the flywheel as the slots allow and pinch up one coil fixing screw. Rotate the flywheel so that the magnets are equally aligned with the coil armature legs. Place your gauge ( plastic or card ) between the armature legs and the flywheel. Release the screw that you tightened and the magnets will pull the coil onto the flywheel pinching the gauge . Tighten both screws and turn the flywheel to assist pulling the gauge out.

In the absence of the correct gauge, Briggs used to suggest two thicknesses of an outdated micro fiche. 

 

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Lets try to "un-complicate" this.

Your Magnetron coil will produce a spark and run the engine with No wires connected to it  - The spade terminal on the coil is for a connection to a Stop Switch to earth the coil and stop the engine.

To find the Stop Switch, follow the throttle cable from the handlebars down to where it joins the engine at the throttle plate. Somewhere on that plate you should see a wire : maybe attached with a small ring terminal to a threaded "post" with a nut or maybe pushed through a spring terminal. That is the Stop Switch. The wire wire can be traced back to under the flywheel and may safely be cut or removed together with the other wire .

You now need to provide a means of connecting your new coil to the stop switch. You could use the existing stop wire but to connect it to the coil you will have to find a suitable "lucar" female connector so it may be easier to use the new harness that came with the coil.

If your throttle plate has the threaded post, that is where you attach the ring terminal on your new wire . In that case connect the push on connector to the coil and route the wire with the ring connector to the stop switch. You can then cut off the spare wire from the coil connector .  If the Stop Switch is of the spring terminal type you have a choice. Either proceed as above but snip off the ring connector, bare the wire and poke it under the spring or use the bare ended wire on your new harness to make the connection between coil and switch and trim off the wire with the looped terminal.

What you are trying to achieve is one wire connecting the coil to the Stop Switch - all other wires may be safely removed.

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19 hours ago, Wristpin said:

Lets try to "un-complicate" this.

Your Magnetron coil will produce a spark and run the engine with No wires connected to it  - The spade terminal on the coil is for a connection to a Stop Switch to earth the coil and stop the engine.

To find the Stop Switch, follow the throttle cable from the handlebars down to where it joins the engine at the throttle plate. Somewhere on that plate you should see a wire : maybe attached with a small ring terminal to a threaded "post" with a nut or maybe pushed through a spring terminal. That is the Stop Switch. The wire wire can be traced back to under the flywheel and may safely be cut or removed together with the other wire .

You now need to provide a means of connecting your new coil to the stop switch. You could use the existing stop wire but to connect it to the coil you will have to find a suitable "lucar" female connector so it may be easier to use the new harness that came with the coil.

If your throttle plate has the threaded post, that is where you attach the ring terminal on your new wire . In that case connect the push on connector to the coil and route the wire with the ring connector to the stop switch. You can then cut off the spare wire from the coil connector .  If the Stop Switch is of the spring terminal type you have a choice. Either proceed as above but snip off the ring connector, bare the wire and poke it under the spring or use the bare ended wire on your new harness to make the connection between coil and switch and trim off the wire with the looped terminal.

What you are trying to achieve is one wire connecting the coil to the Stop Switch - all other wires may be safely removed.

Sorry for confusing matters as I had in my head that there was a positive wire that I needed to make a connection to I will comeback to this point later as I think it is very important but I have some news that I want to share

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I am not sure what happened to my other post last night as it seems to have disappeared so I am having to rewrite everything again but in word 1st just to be safe!! Plus I couldn’t load photos maybe the site rolled back???

Anyway, Firstly I thought that that on the old coil that the wire with the ring connector on the left which was mounted on the post body via the coil securing bolt was Earth.

Secondly I thought that the wire on the right was possibly Positive and providing power to the condenser and points.

Then the other wire that that comes out from under the flywheel (wherever that’s connected to) goes directly to the stop switch.

 

Please forgive me  and yes I agree I am a bit thick at times LOL!!!

So now I have cut off the right hand wire on the old coil which is what I thought was Positive and needing to be connected to the new Magnetron Coil. I realise now that since Wristpin has clarified this for me that this is not the case and I have removed the old coil. So on that note I think I have clarified my previous reply and don’t need to add anything further (I Hope LOL!!).

Well now onto the good news/bad news, I fitted the new coil as per instructions, set the timing up, connected the stop wire to the stop wire switch and low and behold I got a spark. Then I lost the spark I rechecked everything again 3 times over and got a spark which I captured on film which isn’t very exciting and I am not sure if I can post it up but happy to provide a copy if anyone wants one.

So at this point I had 4 or 5 consistent pulls with a spark so I refitted the plug. Put in some fresh fuel and tried starting it, After a few wrist breaking pulls it fired into life I then moved the throttle from full choke to run and it then died and I have lost spark again.

So now I am going to recheck everything again as I am not sure why I keep losing spark. Yippee photos have loaded, Middle pic is Timing being set up and the last is of the stop wire connector block on the throttle plate which is a bit of brass and plastic and not very good

OldCoilWithCutRightWire.jpg

P1090009.JPG

P1080477.JPG

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Good, Sounds like progress of a sort!

Cant remember the exact figure but Magnetron units need around 350 rpm to produce a spark  - considerably more than the old points and condenser set up , so you may not have lost the spark, just not pulling hard enough. If you have not already done so, remove the cutter belt until you have every thing working. On an Osprey there is a fair amount of inertia to overcome in the belt and cutter disc .

if the engine will only run on full or part choke you have a carburettor problem - not ignition ; time for a strip and clean.

 

Loosing your post - remember that we are into page three of a long thread!!!

 

 

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2 hours ago, Wristpin said:

Good, Sounds like progress of a sort!

Cant remember the exact figure but Magnetron units need around 350 rpm to produce a spark  - considerably more than the old points and condenser set up , so you may not have lost the spark, just not pulling hard enough. If you have not already done so, remove the cutter belt until you have every thing working. On an Osprey there is a fair amount of inertia to overcome in the belt and cutter disc .

if the engine will only run on full or part choke you have a carburettor problem - not ignition ; time for a strip and clean.

 

Loosing your post - remember that we are into page three of a long thread!!!

 

 

Hiya,

 

I didn't lose the post but strange things were definitely happening as I also had to reset my password last night. I do agree though its a long but brilliant thread and you have been an Absolute Superstar and I would like to send you  a little something to say Thank you for all your help or make a donation to this site if you prefer.

 

In the meantime GOOD NEWS I re-checked through everything this morning and I think the problem was with the stop wire holder on the throttle body as I mentioned it is a little worn. I disconnected the wire and checked and found that I had spark again. So I cleaned up the holder, refitted the wire and made sure the holder was snug after refitting and so far it has started everytime on 6 seperate occassions. I had already cleaned out the carb earlier so I didn't think it was that but it is something I would like to overhaul in the future. I am know going to add a smalll video (hope the site takes it) so you can see and hear for yourself. Here goes!!! Sadly File too big even though I have zipped it Here is a photo of it running you can see the flywheel is not stationery. Happy to email the Video though!!!

P1090010.JPG

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Pleased to have been of service! Your final problem and it's solution is interesting as, although I've not experienced it on s BS engine , I've seen it a few times on Tecumsehs; usually after they have been pressure washed during service. It would seem that electronic units can push enough down the kill wire to leak to ground if the conditions are right . In fact I've even experienced a " tingle " from a Tecumseh kill wire.

I hope that the rest of the job goes according to plan, but if not, there's plenty of Osprey related info available.

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On 6/26/2017 at 0:34 AM, Wristpin said:

Pleased to have been of service! Your final problem and it's solution is interesting as, although I've not experienced it on s BS engine , I've seen it a few times on Tecumsehs; usually after they have been pressure washed during service. It would seem that electronic units can push enough down the kill wire to leak to ground if the conditions are right . In fact I've even experienced a " tingle " from a Tecumseh kill wire.

I hope that the rest of the job goes according to plan, but if not, there's plenty of Osprey related info available.

Many thanks again for all your help and your reply I hope it will also help other people in the future

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Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum. I have a few Hayterettes, a Twenty One without an engine and have been after a decent Osprey for a short while. I picked up a clean non running 1974 Osprey for a bargain price recently, I've changed the coil to the newer electronic version and with a fresh tank of fuel she started first time. Unfortunately after a couple of hours work the rear wheels locked up. I stripped the clutch assembly to find that the clutch liner had parted company with the drive sprocket and had jammed in the drive chain.

I intend to re-bond a new lining back onto the sprocket with epoxy resin once I've found a supplier. Shame, I had three old Ospreys ten or more years ago which due to having nowhere to put them, I got rid of. Does anyone have a copy of the parts manual for these mowers?

 

I shall post up a few photos when I can.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Nosey-P said:

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum. I have a few Hayterettes, a Twenty One without an engine and have been after a decent Osprey for a short while. I picked up a clean non running 1974 Osprey for a bargain price recently, I've changed the coil to the newer electronic version and with a fresh tank of fuel she started first time. Unfortunately after a couple of hours work the rear wheels locked up. I stripped the clutch assembly to find that the clutch liner had parted company with the drive sprocket and had jammed in the drive chain.

I intend to re-bond a new lining back onto the sprocket with epoxy resin once I've found a supplier. Shame, I had three old Ospreys ten or more years ago which due to having nowhere to put them, I got rid of. Does anyone have a copy of the parts manual for these mowers?

I shall post up a few photos when I can.

 

I use these people to obtain Friction Lining materials- if it helps you-   -LINK-

As for parts Manuals etc, if you look at Wristpin's post half way down PAGE 1 of this thread, you will see links to Dropbox files.

Regards

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Hi All, just a quick update from my last post really !! JB from Hayter has now retired sadly for me but great for John, hope hes enjoying all his well deserved free time !!!

I have now managed to get a spark, more by luck then educated judgement................. but its a real effort to pull the old girl over and it back fires loudly !! hence more fettling and work in progress to do, i also found when conducting an internet search if you add Rockwell JLO you suddenly open up a world of info on these Two stroke engines, but sadly my L197 type engine looks to be the rarest with little info available, but some good guidelines to read in between for set up etc .

 

Hope that helps anyone else who has one of these machines

 

Best regards

 

Nigel  

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On 09/07/2017 at 7:17 PM, Nigel444 said:

Hi All, just a quick update from my last post really !! JB from Hayter has now retired sadly for me but great for John, hope hes enjoying all his well deserved free time !!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

All the good guys are falling by the wayside!

Presume that you've removed the cutter belt to make life easier while sorting the engine?

Have you tried both flywheel keyway positions or did it turn out to be obvious which one is correct?

I'll add a Dropbox link to the L197 manual later , but it's not that informative.

 

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Hi, yes very true, its a shame really, as in the right circumstances its a nice trade to be in, but youngsters are not keen..........

 

No fires at all from position one, quite a few from position two, so we have gone with that, oh and yes not at first but later popped cover off removed belt, arrrr what joy....... haha much better !!!

 

I have a new plug arrive today and in my excitement i had forgot to clean out the carb and air filter as it had been stood for a while, must re check points gap again and set as per manufactures gap if i could only find it, just gone for thick card gap.

 

Thank you  

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