O and R tiny tiger generato carb parts needed

[scott mok 3]

• Hello Im new here and im rebuilding carb on a O & R tiny tiger generator. Im looking for parts and im going off of diagram on this site. #12 (21-35 ) diaphragm arm spring and #13 (10-7) diaphragm arm.

 

[Wallfish 687]

Hey Scott

Unfortunately those arm springs are scarce but it's something I've been thinking about on how to make a replacement. That thin of a spring steel might be difficult to find but I have not actually put the time in to search it. But, if you're a handy guy and want to try making one, I do have some thin spring steel from a piston ring compressor tool. It would probably need to be ground or filed down to be thinner, then cut into shape. you can use what's left of your spring for a template of the size and shape. Let me know if you want to try and I'll send you a piece of the metal. Only requirement is you need to report back with your success or failure so we know if it works or not.

[scott mok 3]

That is great I would like to give it a try. I will let you know how it worked out, I still need a arm so I will have to figure that out too if I cant find one. I very much appreciate the steel for the spring. Thank you Wallfish

 

 

Your address was removed from this public post just in case. You never know, so always keep the bad guys guessing. It's best to share addresses and phone numbers through private messages.

[Wallfish 687]

I'll get you a carb arm too.

@CNew is going to measure the thickness of that steel of a spring. They sell thin blue tempered spring shim stock in different thicknesses on epay. Be real nice if we can match that thickness so it would be easier to try and reproduce those springs. even closer than the piece of material I have would be better.

[Wallfish 687]

Just guessing and going by feel but here's a 3" x 50 " roll of .003. That should keep the new guy busy cut'n carb springs for a while! LoL

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PRECISION-BRAND-SHIM-STOCK-ROLL-BLUE-TEMPERED-STEEL-003-GAUGE-3-X-50-23120/401788624351?epid=1530224846&hash=item5d8c77dddf:g:0LIAAOSwg6ldB6p7

 

OR, for a quick try on cutting them, how about using a cheapie feeler guage from harbor freight? The width of the one I have is the perfect length of the spring. Now they can be tried in different thicknesses too and you can probably cut almost 10 from each different size. 

A whopping $5 to try one

https://www.harborfreight.com/feeler-gauge-32-pc-63665.html

Whatever you do don't use a shopping cart when going in there. It's always impulse buy hell if you like tinkering or tools. Go in for a $5 item and come out $50 poorer. Minimum!

[scott mok 3]

Im getting .003 on my broken piece, im going to get that link you sent on ebay. 

Thanks Scott

[Wallfish 687]

just tried my own advice and cut a couple off the feeler gauge. It seemed like .002 was right but again, I'm only going by feel with my fingers and trying to compare it with the gauged material. Real scientific like approach! Please don't try this at home!

The feeler gauge is unfortunately not the correct width so they need to be cut length wise. BUT it was perfect size for halfway so 2 can be cut from the same length. Used very scientific tools to cut them, scissors and an Xacto knife.

Left is #1 attempt

middle is actual spring

Right is #2 attempt

Clearly not perfect as the first one is dimensional sewage but #2 might actually work. After cutting a bunch the technique should improve so therefore the finished product should as well. Scientific reasoning. LoL

 

[Wallfish 687]

1 hour ago, scott mok said:

Im getting .003 on my broken piece, im going to get that link you sent on ebay. 

Thanks Scott

I like a guy that hops right in and gets to work!  No fear of trying something new and doesn't care about sacrificing a few bucks to give it a go even if it doesn't work. That's confidence it WILL work!

Got the new homemade .002 feeler gauge spring installed into a carb. I think you're right about it being .003 as this one does seem a little light on the tension but this is going to work for replacements one way or another. A better faster way to cut them with a little more precision and woolaa, springs. Wonder if there's a way to get these metal pieces laser cut? Eric the gasket man can't do metal on his equipment but also not so sure we can use a couple hundred in all of our lifetimes put together.

I'm glad you got this kick started Scott

Now if we can only get @JUST O&R to make 6000 ft of silicone fuel line our carb problems will be over!

 

[CNew 403]

2 hours ago, Wallfish said:

 

@CNew is going to measure the thickness of that steel of a spring

 

Looks like 0.005”

48 minutes ago, Wallfish said:

just tried my own advice and cut a couple off the feeler gauge. 

 

 

Wow, those look pretty good now I’m going to have to try it....

[Wallfish 687]

005 seems pretty thick even by feel.

Just tried one in 004 and much more difficult to cut with scissors but still made one and it's definitely much stiffer than the original spring I'm using

Get'n frustrated now with cutting a couple more and it's getting late. Just dropped the 003 one in my tools and can't find it so giving up for now.

Maybe a tool and die shop can make a punch set to knock these out. There's a guy over on RedSquare which owns a shop. I'll certainly ask him.

[CNew 403]

I’ll take a couple more measurements tomorrow.

A punch would be the way to go. Keep us posted.

[JUST O&R 237]

Didn't I send you a couple of those a few weeks back. Don't tell me you lost them to

[CNew 403]

Maybe it’s less about an exact thickness and more about the springiness (that’s the scientific term) of the metal...  I’m guessing there are all sorts of grades of springiness to thickness ratio for spring steel shim stock. 

3 minutes ago, JUST O&R said:

Didn't I send you a couple of those a few weeks back. Don't tell me you lost them to

The one you sent me is the one in the photo with the micrometer measurement. I think Scott is looking for one for his carb and Wallfish started looking at how to maybe make theses since they’re starting to be hard to get these days.

[Wallfish 687]

2 minutes ago, JUST O&R said:

Didn't I send you a couple of those a few weeks back. Don't tell me you lost them to

Used one of them and already have a need for the other. It's clear we will all soon be in need of them and Scott is the first casualty until a spring solution is found.

 

4 minutes ago, CNew said:

Maybe it’s less about an exact thickness and more about the springiness (that’s the scientific term) of the metal...  I’m guessing there are all sorts of grades of springiness to thickness ratio for spring steel shim stock. 

Exactly what I was thinking too. Different material will have different tension properties (Touche')

[JUST O&R 237]

Just making sure nobody is loosing them they are going to get harder to find. I may need to

do some experimenting my self.

[Wallfish 687]

I'm working on it today.

Does anyone have experience creating a DXF file? We can get an online quote to have them laser cut if I can upload a DXF file for the springs.

Found a free trial program but it will probably take a while for an idiot like me to figure out how to use it properly and create a file.

The tool and die guy responded but so far it's just correspondence to see if it's even a cost effective solution.

One thing for sure, that one I did get right and installed will work. BUT having a bit more precision to them would be much better

[CNew 403]

53 minutes ago, Wallfish said:

Exactly what I was thinking too. Different material will have different tension properties (Touche')

Nice

Glad to hear the one you got right might also have the right tension properties... now how do we determine what those are so we can match to a source?

[Wallfish 687]

Trial and error is typically the process I use.

The tension of the .002 spring installed into the carb should work but it does feel a little light. The .003 material is what I'd suggest trying next and at minimum that feeler gauge material at that thickness should work best (So Far). One thing to be careful of if cutting by hand, the spring steel will easily crack. Already had one crack off the little arm because of the cut on the inside corner. This is where a better cutting method will pay off. Tried cutting that inside piece out with an xacto, scissors and just bending to break it. That area is the most important it seems so even if a cutting method for that spot is used, the rest can easily be cut with shears. I'll try making my own die today to try and punch that out.

[scott mok 3]

Heres my first try, It me about an hour to make what you think

Scott

[Wallfish 687]

Guess you won't be able to FEEL anything at .003 either huh?

Looks good. I'll get you some parts in the mail to give it a real world test in the engine.

After closer inspection of the pics you PMd, that diaphragm body you have is a newer type which used a small rubber piece attached to the arm for the valve instead of using a ball bearing like the drawing you referenced. Unfortunately that particular arm is another part which is in very short supply. However, changing that bottom half to a ball type valve body with a regular type bearing valve and arm will solve the problem. I'll get you the needed parts to try that spring.

Please look at that carb diagram thoroughly again and verify you have all of the gaskets and that thin little check valve which fits between the 2 halves.

 

 

[CNew 403]

Gasket and diaphragm are on their way...

[Wallfish 687]

The tool and die maker did respond and also gave a good idea.

He wrote "Perfect job for a shop with a wire EDM machine, they could stack dozens of blanks and cut them perfectly."

He wrote "I could make a fixture and do the same by grinding, but it would take more effort."

[CNew 403]

Interesting, EDM would be good for that. Might start to get a little pricey...

[Wallfish 687]

So, Unfortunately I got side tracked with some important work an personal stuff and didn't meet the hobby goals of today with sending @scott mok, @CNew and @pmackellow their goodie packages, attempting a better spring cutting method by shearing out the center, inspecting all of the parts and attachments from a recently acquired Wheel Horse 520-H tractor package deal,  and any other O&R or tractor stuff. Never made it out of the house today. Maybe @JUST O&R should check in so I can find something to send him too. LoL

 But, I ordered a roll of that spring material and a 1/8" W grinding disk. The plan is to pinch a stack of the spring material in between some mild steel for support, get the grinding wheel to fit in my lathe chuck and use the milling attachment to feed and control the stock into the wheel and grind out the center opening of the spring shape. Then either grind or cut the exterior edges for the springs. All theory it will work at this point but certainly worth a try compared to individually hand cutting our feeler gauges. But don't stay complacent waiting for me, cut up those feeler gauges so yours is as ruined as mine is! LoL

[JUST O&R 237]

I need a new feeler gauge any way might try it I thought about cutting two chunks of steel cutting a slot in them then taking a grinder

to cut the center of the spring out.

If you just want to send me something that would be fine. just make it a surprise.