Springtime!

[Try-umf 0]

1936 Triumph Gloria rear brakes

It's springtime! Not quite perhaps but I would like to know how or where this spring fits (circled in yellow, part #5167) and its purpose. I am aware they are handed and that it must hold something in place. The brakes came to me disassembled so I have never seen them on the backplate. My best guess so far is also shown. To me it does not feel right, the shorter curved end looks as though it should wrap around or rest against something.

[Aiberdonian 98]

Try-umph,

It has been a while since I did the rear brakes on my Gloria and I can't really remember where that spring fits but it is there to pull against the hand brake cable which connects to the slot on the lower arm so it must push against the lower arm just above the slot .
It certainly does not fit against the cross arm which pushes against the shoes.
I would offer to take a look at mine but it is - 8 deg C at the moment and does not look like rising above zero for a few days.

[Try-umf 0]

Thanks - for the info.  With the parts book refering to it as 'spring push rod' I thought it may refer to the bar that pushes the two shoes apart when the handbrake is applied. The problem I have is that I can not see a way of th espring actually making its way to the handbrake                 ctuating arm if it sits on the pivot as the coil in the spring suggests. 

[Aiberdonian 98]

I found my spare handbrake mechanism and spring today but I still can't remember how it is assembled, it was 2006 when I did the rear brakes before finding the ash frame was in need of repair and was another 10 years before I found the time needed to get it done.
It looks as though the temperature is going up a bit at the weekend, I'll take a wheel and brake drum off and let you know. The old fingers don't like the cold these days.

[Try-umf 0]

Thank you for taking your time to help me sort this. It is much appreciated. It has occured to me like a lot of mechanical aspects of these early Triumphs a lot of mechanical knowledge has not been recorded and with cars not undergoing a lot of miles few are getting serviced. The result is the knowledge is getting lost. I am making sure that I keep a record of things as I go, just in case the next generation want to keep these cars on the road. 

 

[Aiberdonian 98]

Fired up the wood burner in the workshop this morning, discovered the trolley jack low on oil, topped it up and removed the wheel and drum from the Gloria to find that the spring does act upon the cross shaft.

• It actually pushes down on the shaft as above, I couldn't see where the tang locates and I was not about to dismantle it to find out but you should be able to figure it out as you assemble it to the brake shoe.
  I had to use my steam driven phone as my camera has decided it has had enough and the screen has gone blank and if you have read my post about my sympathetic restoration of my Gloria in this section you will already know that modern technology and I don't get on very well.
  Which model of Gloria are you restoring ?
•  

 

[Try-umf 0]

Thanks for the picture. I have put the spring on in said fashion and it looks as though its not get enough tension so some tweeking will be required. It studying the parts page to see what shape the  spring should actually be I notices mention of washers for the anchor pin. This now has me troubled because I don't have any washers. I've uploaded the parts plate. #X568 is anchor pin plain washer (X4) X566 is shoe anchor pin plain washer (X8). My guess is that there is a plain washer against the back plate and between the shoes and then one under the anchor pin cir clip (#7191). I do'nt know how thick each wasjer should be but the anchor pin is about 0.86" so I can work out he inner diameter sand probably the outer diameter too. Would yo uagree with my proposal for where the washers go?

 

I read with great interest your post on your restoration. It will be very valuable as I do not have a body for my 1936 Triumph Gloria. I think it is politely called a special. I have tried to download the comments so I can study them later. 

 

My project came to me via my mentor who when I started teaching took me under his wing. It was a chassis only at the back of the workshop when I arrived at the school in 1976. Over the years  although I moved schools and counties I helped in buying, transporting, repairing and making parts for Gloria. When he died I bought the project from his estate. I am basically putting together a jigsaw without all the parts and no picture. I bought another Triumph, a 1934 Gloria saloon a couple of years ago that is in a very bad way but I hoped it would provide a source of information and perhaps some parts. It turns out that there is a world of difference between 1934 and 1936 Triumphs. 

Edited December 15 by Try-umf

[Aiberdonian 98]

HOLD IT - I'm wrong!
I raked out an old backplate and shoes to try the hand brake mechanism and found that your initial set up with the spring pushing upwards on the cross shaft is correct.


If you look at this photo you can see that I modified the brake shoe with a bolt and collar to prevent the cross shaft from being pushed off the pin on the shoe.



I then removed the spring and turned it round to correct position and when replacing to back plate discovered that the spring was fouling the boot on the wheel cylinder which explains why I modified it in the first place, I have now bent the spring a little to clear the boot and it seems OK now.

As far as the anchor pin is concerned the brake shoes fit directly to the pin followed by double spring (thackery) washer X634 then plain washer X566 before fitting the circlip 7191.
X 634 is 1 5/16" OD x 7/8" ID x 1/2" non compressed
X 566 is 1 1/4" OD x 7/8" ID x 0.062" thick


Fitting the circlip is a real PITA as the spring needs to be fully compressed before the clip can be fitted.
I made a tool from a piece of thin section tube with 1" ID as below





Damn I've loaded it twice, however by placing this against the plain washer with tags at 12 and 6 o'clock and using a G Clamp you can compress the spring and get the circlip started in the slot and then tapped down to meet the top tag as below 



Slacken clamp and remove before tapping the clip fully home.

[Try-umf 0]

Many thanks. I have been shown pictures of the spring fitted to push the cross bar down but as you have shown my intuition appears correct. It should be pulled up so the step in the arm is in contact with the pin. There is in the parts diagram th ecorrect locating arrangement in place of your wsher. It consists of #4072 (slotted cover that goes over the pin and held in place by the bolt) , #4073 (a steped bolt) and #5130 &#X195 washer and castlegated nut and split pin. I'll take and post a picture. What is the saying about great minds? I had the same plan when it came to compressing the Thackeray washer. The thickness of the washer is a great help. I'll machine up four washers from some 1 1/4" stainless steel bar I have.  What a job this is! 

[Try-umf 0]

I have been sent two scaned pages detailing the Lockheed brake assembly form Brakes and Brake Testing  by Maurice Platt, 1934. A definitive layout of brake components so now I feel confident that they will be correctly assembled. Happy days. 

[Aiberdonian 98]

That's good information but those diagrams show the spring pushing down on the cross bar - what is the correct way ?
When I reassembled my brake shoes I couldn't get the drum back on because the tang on the spring was resting against a collar on the reverse side of the brake shoe spring pin which meant the shoes were being held apart by the thickness of the spring. I bent the spring so that it rested on the pin rather than the collar and managed to get the drum back on only to find that the brake cable has stiffened up to the extent that it no longer moves easily, I think it may have frayed inside the outer casing.
Here we go again !