Polaris Power Pole

[phaskell 13]

I finally finished restoring my Polaris Power Pole, with thanks to Webhead for having the parts that I needed. I'm attaching a "before" and an "after" photo. This gets some good comments and questions at gas engine meets!

[Wallfish 687]

Welcome to the forum!

Very nice job saving another piece of O&R history. Your Power Pole has the removable powerhead to be used with other attachments. The only other one I'm aware of at this time is the outboard but hopefully we'll find others too. Some of these have a different engine mount and are only used as snow throwers. If you search "Power Pole" you can see Webhead's version is like that. You'll also find a video of mine throwing snow, they actually work very well 

What all did you have to fix and/or replace?

[phaskell 13]

Thanks! The blower housing and recoil were missing, as well as the starter pawls and springs, and the decals for the housing. All the other decals were in pretty good shape. It just needed a good cleaning and repainting beyond that. The engine has good compression and nothing appears to be broken, but I don't plan to run it.

[pmackellow 2,728]

Welcome phaskell, nice machine !! 

[tackdriver56 2]

Nice restoration. I have one also, in original condition. It runs, but needs some TLC. I notice you seem to have the handle installed correctly. The handle on mine was reversed for some reason.

 

I've replaced the Lovejoy coupling between the powerhead and drive shaft... the old one was crumbling.

 

Also my fuel tank had been repaired but didn't look too secure, so I set it aside, and made a polyethylene tank with model airplane parts, for testing. I haven't rebuilt the carburetor yet... that's my next project, I think.

Edited February 2, 2015 by tackdriver56

[tackdriver56 2]

If anyone has knowledge about the transmission lube requirements for the Polaris Power Pole, please share. The first time I ran it, I used the apparent Fill & Drain plugs to gauge the fill level for gear lube in the gear box. The engine, when started, apparently aspirated all the oil through the crankshaft seal. It made a Hell of a smoke cloud, but it ran great. NOW, the engine sounds rather "dry". I'm going to mix this next batch of gas & oil with the original 25:1 ratio, for protection.

 

I am also replacing the carburetor diaphragm, and tightened a few screws, replacing one missing screw on the gearbox housing. This should help keep it from running too lean.

 

Any more thoughts? Especially as the clutch is inside the transmission housing, I hope I didn't ruin it by adding oil...

[tackdriver56 2]

Some videos, from my first Polaris Power Pole test runs:

 

Introduction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmifvG0TD0Y

The Smoke Cloud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I66bV2e4DtA

Snow Removal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeTUcRF2Dm4 Note the rising RPM & "dryer" sound to the motor, after the gearbox oil has been used.

 

I also figured out from pictures here & elsewhere, that the handle was installed backward when I acquired this one. If only the engine work were so easy to fix...

[Wallfish 687]

I don't believe those gear cases are designed to use gear oil and have found only traces of grease inside the cases which I have opened up. I fill mine with Lubriplate engine assembly grease.

 

The old oil ratio on the label was for old SAE 30 motor oil which was how it was done back in the day but modern oil is much different. I use 2 stroke oil designed for AIR cooled engines and mix at 32:1

 

No problem with oil in the clutch. I do have ice augers which are designed to hold gear oil in the cases and they use the same clutch which gets submersed in the gear oil and they still operate. The only issue is the friction of the oil causes the drum to turn unless it gets restricted enough to hold the shaft still.

 

If the oil did not leak out of the gear case and was sucked into the engine, those seals should be replaced.

 

Cool video, the engine sounded better once it warmed up and should sound like a chainsaw. A little "pingie" sound with no load and smooth when under load. Too much oil in the fuel mix will cause the exhaust to clog, become restricted with deposits and cause a loss of power.

 

Is this video with the new diaphragm?

[tackdriver56 2]

Thanks for the info. The videos were from my original test-run. I couldn't keep it running today without full choke and rapid primer-pushes. I'm going to try removing the carb and make sure there's nothing plugging the needle passages. I'd really rather NOT perform the major tear-down required to replace the crank seals, but I suspect that's where I'm going to end up, since the oil WAS sucked out and burned (hence the original smoke cloud).

[tackdriver56 2]

One other question: Are you aware of any crankcase pulse passage in this engine, like the walbro carbs use, or is this diaphragm strictly a manual priming device?

[Wallfish 687]

The diaphragm pulses from the piston movement and feeds fuel ALL the time. The button for manual priming was added for easier starting, early engines did not have the primer button but everything else was exactly the same. The button is only used for starting a cold engine. If you need to push the button and choke on, it's not getting enough fuel or it's leaking air somewhere.

What 2 stroke engine and carb are you referring to with "passages" for the diaphragm? Are you referring to the reed valves? If you take a look at the engine rebuild pics, post #4 shows the reed valves, which is then covered by the induction section which the carb bolts to. This is where the pulse comes from and where the fuel goes to reach the cylinder. Fuel/air mixture passes right through the case which is why the case is sealed.

http://myoldmachine.com/topic/1559-or-engine-rebuild-pics/

Trust me, you are not the first one to get frustrated with these engines and certainly won't be the last. Even with plenty of experience, there are some that just don't want to cooperate! 

[tackdriver56 2]

Here's a link to today's testing: http://youtu.be/vEBSLmRamE8

[tackdriver56 2]

Thanks John. I guess I'm going to get a detailed education, as I take this thing apart... I've worked on the little COX model engines, which used sort of a reed valve, and a 1960's Bridgestone motorcycle with a rotating disc intake valve. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how the diaphragm works in these engines. I guess the crankcase vacuum draws the fuel out into the intake air, and when the piston is on the "down stroke" the reed prevents backflow to the carb, the charge is transferred to the combustion chamber, and the spring/lever under the diaphragm pushes it up, drawing the next shot of fuel from the tank into the carburetor.

 

There was talk in the Walbro docs of there being a separate air passage from the crankcase to the diaphragm chamber,.. to give it a boost?ext

 

Anyway, my next step is to remove the carb from the engine, which I haven't yet done, and make sure the passages to & from the needle are open.

[Wallfish 687]

Since I do a bunch of carbs, I soak all the carb parts in a gallon can like this (except for any rubber parts).

http://www.amazon.com/CC3K-Carburetor-Parts-Cleaner-Basket/dp/B000ABGA4E/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=128S4M2FNQB7XBFE8T04

Then spray them with the aresol type carb cleaner,

http://www.amazon.com/Berryman-0117C-Chemtool-Carburetor-Throttle/dp/B004BRHF24/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=128S4M2FNQB7XBFE8T04

then blow them out with compressed air.

 

You can get by with just the spray type.

[Wallfish 687]

Any luck ?

Getting the needle adjustment is also critical. I usually start at 3/4 turn open and then make very small adjustments after that. Getting them "dialed in" can be a PITA because you can adjust at high speed to run perfect but then it can be hard starting. Some just go real easy and some can be difficult. Seems like these engines were designed to test a person's patience and I wonder how many tools were just smashed with a hammer because of the same experience you are having.

[tackdriver56 2]

I've cleaned it, and pulled the cylinder, which looks good. The piston shows a little skirt scuff, but the rings look good.. Planning to pressurize the gearbox slightly to check the seal on that side, since it aspirated the gear-oil. Anticipating a tear-down. Anyone have seals and gaskets for sale?

[tackdriver56 2]

Okay, pressurizing the "oil fill port" on the PPP gearbox to 25 psi, I got unimpeded air flow through what should be a crank seal. I also got air flow OUT of the carburetor, which shouldn't happen if there's a functioning reed valve. So at least two problems to solve before my next test run. The flywheel side crank seal was NOT leaking, but if I'm going to do a complete tear-down, I might as well cover all the bases. Recommendations for seals? Anyone?

[Wallfish 687]

Webhead should have the seals and gaskets. Once you pull the pieces apart the gaskets should be changed too. He may not have the crank PTO seal you need, but I can provide one if he doesn't have it.

 

If pressure is applied through the PTO side seal, it could flow out the carb because the reed valves are after the induction sector which your carb is connected to. The reed valves are located right next to the crank's counter weights. The pressure could easily exit there and show no leak at the flywheel side. The reed valve checks pressure in the opposite direction you are applying pressure but if you hold your thumb over the induction hole, pressure will pass through the reed valves into the case.

 If you apply pressure through the flywheel side seal, there should be minimal loss out the carb because of the reed valves. Hope this makes sense. Posted an engine drawing under the rebuild thread so you can take a look to get a better idea too. Pics also show the reed valve and where it's installed. Shows the gaskets you might need too.

 

No need to pressurize that high and think 25 psi will pass air through new seals. Webhead uses a balloon attached to the exhaust manifold to check leakdown of the seals but he can explain his method much better than I can. It is a lost thread from the old forum we had so hopefully he'll repost it.

[tackdriver56 2]

Thanks, I hadn't thought of that! Hope webhead does repost the balloon test...

[tackdriver56 2]

My PPP is now running, thanks to helpful advice from Wallfish. After changing the diaphragm, I still needed to disassemble the carb and clean the screen adjacent to the needle seat. One other major problem was an opening directly from the gear-case into the induction section, caused by a previous owner failing to install one of the screws. The shaft seal looked a little worn but it's serviceable. Gear oil now stays in the gear case, where it belongs!

I moved SNOW today!

[ferretdancer 0]

This is probably not the best place, but I don't see much on the internet. I have one of these that I want to give away to a good home.  I live in the metrowest Boston area.  It appears to be in good physical shape (cleaner than the "before" picture above). I assume the gaskets will be shot.  I found it in the garage of a old home I bought a few years ago. Although I have no interest in restoring or keeping it, it is interesting enough that I don't want to recycle it.  Send a PM if interested.

[Wallfish 687]

THANKS again for the unit!

I believe it will clean up nice and I'll post some pics whenever I can get around to working on it.