Tiny Tiger 300 and Drillgine - Info/Parts Request

[FrankZ 10]

Hi,

I found this site while trying to get information on these 2 units that I recently acquired.  There is a wealth of information here and I certainly appreciate learning about these small industrial OR engines as I've had no previous experience with them.... So I need your help.  Your feedback will be greatly appreciated as I would like to get these running again.

 

First up is the Tiny Tiger 300. Here is a picture:

 

I was able to find a type number 111 and a serial number 026152.  Can you provide an engine model and date of manufacture based on this information?

 

The recoil starter handle/knob is missing.  Does anyone have these for sale?  Would the correct one be the early wood stained or painted black one?

 

The recoil started works but does not engage the starter pawls on the flywheel. I have no experience with this so I need help. Here is a picture:

 

 

I assume there is a spring of some sort missing. Is that correct or is there something else not installed correctly? There is a washer underneath each pawl.

 

I would like to purchase carb kits for both this engine and the Drillgine. I assume the same kit works on both but not sure.  The Drillgine is a newer 1969 vintage engine (I think) based on the serial number 936515.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks - Frank Z

[Wallfish 698]

 

The knob would have been the painted black one. Not many "knob only" come up for sale

Those starter pawls are home made and have no springs attached

Carbs should be the same

 

I can look for a set of starter pawls for you and I have carb diaphragms. Might have a knob too but it won't be in perfect condition. Easy enough to use some wood filler, sand and paint.

Take a look at the carb tutorial thread and disassemble your carbs to look for any missing parts.

[FrankZ 10]

Thank you Wallfish for the welcome and your post!

 

I will disassemble the carbs and check for missing parts according to the carb tutorial. 

 

I assumed the starter pawl/dogs were not correct or complete. If you find a spare set I would be interested. Same with the knob.

[Wallfish 698]

@factory David would probably know by the serial if that flywheel requires the older style pawls (basically non existent except for complete engines) or the newer more common style. I see an old type coil on your engine so it's possible it could be the older style. I don't have spare older style pawls but probably have the newer type and a flywheel.

[FrankZ 10]

In order to see if I had spark on the Tiny Tiger, I took the flywheel and recoil starter assembly from the Drillgine and installed them on the Tiny Tiger. This allowed me to be able to turn the engine over using the recoil starter cord.  After cleaning the points and setting proper gaps on the points, mag, and plug, I was able to get spark.  That is the good news.  The bad news is that there is a difference in the recoil starter reels between these two.  I was not able to put the original blower housing/starter assembly on the Tiny Tiger after installing the flywheel and starter pawls/dogs from the Drillgine.  It was very close to fitting up but the blower housing would not seat against the backing plate. Here is a picture showing both blower housings/starter reels with an arrow pointing to the difference:

 

The Drillgine housing/starter reel is on the left, the Tiny Tiger on the right.  So if I'm able to source the newer, more common starter pawls/dogs, I may also need a different starter reel as well.  

[CNew 404]

Wonder if you could put the starter reel from the Drillgine into the recoil housing for the TT, that way it would match up to the starter dogs on the Drillgine flywheel?

[FrankZ 10]

Yes that would work, but in the end I'll want both to be operational so I'll need a second set of matching parts.

[factory 487]

On 10/20/2020 at 9:04 PM, FrankZ said:

The recoil started works but does not engage the starter pawls on the flywheel. I have no experience with this so I need help. Here is a picture:

 

 

I assume there is a spring of some sort missing. Is that correct or is there something else not installed correctly? There is a washer underneath each pawl.

 

On 10/25/2020 at 1:58 AM, Wallfish said:

@factory David would probably know by the serial if that flywheel requires the older style pawls (basically non existent except for complete engines) or the newer more common style. I see an old type coil on your engine so it's possible it could be the older style. I don't have spare older style pawls but probably have the newer type and a flywheel.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

You should be fine with a set of the more common A-139-2 starter dogs, according to my information they were used on engines after SN #015997. The washers under the starter dogs are not needed, neither are original parts.

 

As you've found mixing parts is a major problem with these older engines, the flywheels varied quite a bit with the older engines.

Also the flywheel key changed size & material too, I had to make a custom size flywheel key when I had to use a later flywheel on an older engine, the flywheel would not seat properly with the steel key and the aluminium key was too short for the older crankshaft.

 

The starter pull knob for the Tiny Tiger would be the longer painted type, there were some NOS ones on eBay but I think they've all sold now, apart from those I've never seen any others of that type advertised for sale.

 

David

[factory 487]

On 10/20/2020 at 9:04 PM, FrankZ said:

I was able to find a type number 111 and a serial number 026152.  Can you provide an engine model and date of manufacture based on this information?

 

Type 111 is the model of engine commonly used for the earlier Tiny Tiger generators, if #26152 was found stamped into the crankcase, then I would estimate it was made around 1962.

Note: we can't accurately date any engine made before July 1967.

 

On 10/20/2020 at 9:04 PM, FrankZ said:

The Drillgine is a newer 1969 vintage engine (I think) based on the serial number 936515.

 

That is correct, engine #93xxxx was made in March 1969.

 

David

[FrankZ 10]

Thank you David for your information on the starter dogs and approximate date of the Tiny Tiger!

 

I need to disassemble the carb to verify all the parts are there. Once I get that done I can work up a total parts list of items needed.

[FrankZ 10]

Here is a picture of the serial number stamping on the crankcase of the Tiny Tiger:

 

[FrankZ 10]

I disassembled the carbs on both and found them in inoperable condition as soon as the diaphragms were removed.  I assume previous owners (without access to this great site) put the parts together as shown.  

 

Tiny Tiger:

 

Drillgine:

 

Note the Tiny Tiger carb has the rubber check valve and the Drillgine has the ball valve.  Diaphragm Roller was missing from the Tiny Tiger carb and the Arm Spring had a broken leg on the Drillgine carb. Roller was under laying under the arm out of position on the Drillgine.

 

 

It doesn't look like you can just interchange the ball valve for the rubber valve as the seats are different.  Ball valve casting on the left, rubber valve casting on the right:

 

Unfortunately the rubber valve/arm assembly looks like this:

[FrankZ 10]

One other observation.  The metal Diaphragm Disc is very different in these. The one in the Drillgine is much larger diameter and has a lip around the edge. The one in the Tiny Tiger is smaller and flat. 

[factory 487]

From the pictures I can tell you that the carb fitted to the Tiny Tiger looks to be a later replacement, the quadrant control isn't usually found on older TT's. The diaphragm arm with rubber seal and the small disc are also later parts, the small disc was often glued to the diaphragm itself.

 

The Drillgine carb needs a ball bearing, early carbs used the smaller size, later ones the larger size and those eventually got replaced with the rubber seal type as you've found, it shouldn't be too hard to find a replacement ball bearing (if fact they did recommend replacing these when serving the carb).

 

The diaphragm arm spring can be made, here is one thread, I think there was another too;

You also seem to be missing the little roller that fits under the spring, these can also be made from appropriate size steel rod.

 

David

 

P.S. thanks for confirming the serial number, sometimes the generator has a another number on a decal, but the engine SN is the only one that can be used for dating these.

[Wallfish 698]

The small disk can be attached directly to the diaphragm using Seal All. That one goes with the rubber tipped arm.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313196453239

Those rubber tipped arms are like hens teeth but since you have the rubber piece, maybe it can be re-attached to the arm with Seal All as well. The flat side will need to be flat for it to seal properly so maybe boil it and clamp on a flat surface to cool before attaching it A little tiny dab of glue in the top of the hole to hold it. Just think'n out loud again.

I don't remember ever noticing that "washer" thingy on a recoil spool before. But I can't remember what I had for dinner either so....

[FrankZ 10]

As seen in the first picture in this topic, my Tiny Tiger came mounted on a wooden base.  Would anyone have a measured drawing they would be willing to share so I can make one that is close to original?  I assume it is aluminum plate and I'll need to know thickness in addition to overall measurements. 

 

Or if someone is willing to just trace the outline and mail it to me?  Send a PM and I'll reply asap. Thanks!

 

Update on the Drillgine:  I purchased a couple diaphragm & gasket kits and took some parts from the Tiny Tiger carb and was able to assemble a complete primer diaphragm unit.  I installed it on the Drillgine and last night tried to start it.  On the second pull, the starter rope come out in my hand...  So now I'm learning that replacement process which is thankfully outlined in the service manual I downloaded from Factory's topic. Thanks Factory!

 

Hopefully I will get the Drillgine running this weekend.

[DustyB 8]

[FrankZ 10]

Thank you DustyB. This is exactly what I need to fabricate a base!

[FrankZ 10]

After a couple weeks with no time to dedicate to these, I have an update:

 

On the Drillgine, I had to reinstall the starter pull cord and also fix the end of the recoil spring that sticks out through the blower housing so it would stay in place.  Then with the new diaphragm in the carb I was able to get her running. Chucked up a 3/8" drill bit and drilled some holes through a 2x4 to see how it ran under load.  Runs nicely.

 

On the Tiny Tiger, I had taken some carb parts and used them to get the Drillgine going and needed some other parts. Wallfish is in the process of shipping me parts he had this week. Hopefully that will get me further along to the point I can try to start it.  I still need the wooden handle for the pull cord.  It is the wooden longer black handle with ball end.  Would anyone have dimensions they would share with me (Thanks again DustyB for the awesome base diagram!) I'll need overall length, shank length, and diameter of ball end. If someone provides this information, I'll try my hand at turning one on the wood lathe.

[DustyB 8]

[FrankZ 10]

Thank you very much DustyB!!!

[FrankZ 10]

DustyB,

 

In looking at your dimensions, Would you please get me an overall length? Thanks again!

 

[DustyB 8]

2" overall length

[factory 487]

On 10/30/2020 at 6:16 PM, FrankZ said:

As seen in the first picture in this topic, my Tiny Tiger came mounted on a wooden base.  Would anyone have a measured drawing they would be willing to share so I can make one that is close to original?  I assume it is aluminum plate and I'll need to know thickness in addition to overall measurements. 

 

The original baseplate is indeed aluminium, I had to make a base for my Tiny Tiger model 400 as it was also missing (they often are), one of the stalls at an engine show had an off-cut of stainless steel in the correct thickness at a price I couldn't refuse, aluminium would have been much easier to work with though.

 

I also made the little spacers that fit the screws between the base tank from paxolin rod.

 

The two screws are #10-32 with a slotted mushroom head, I had to order way too many to get the right size over here in the UK.

I never did found a source for the Acorn Pal-nut though, I believe the correct part is Palnut AC 1032 if you can find any.

 

David

[factory 487]

One last thing to think about when making the new baseplate, I would advise not to drill the holes for the feet to the final size until you've bought some, again I've not found any the same as the originals.

 

David