Csaw 4 #1 Posted November 30, 2021 I have an old saw model 20 A 274 that has been sitting for 40 years. I tried to get it going but with no luck. First it had no spark. The condenser tested good. I cleaned up the points a little and got spark. I threw a little mixed gas in the spark plug hole but it won’t pop. I replaced the spark plug as a test but no luck. Switch is on otherwise I wouldn’t have spark. I took off the muffler and the piston looks good at first glance, no lines. 1) is the champion cj6 that was in it the right plug? 2) I’m sure crank seals are shot and who knows what else but what else can I try just to see if it it will come alive? Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wallfish 698 #2 Posted December 1, 2021 The bigger 20A engines aren't necessarily my thing but you should have a nice snapping blue spark. A weak orange spark may jump the plug gap out of the engine but maybe not under compression. Even with bad crank seals it should still pop. Just thinking out loud Timing is accomplished by the key in the flywheel so maybe verify the key maybe another condenser Cj6 plug sounds right but I'm not 100% sure. I can check an engine to see what's in it Cranks seals can swelled with DOT3 brake fluid or spray carb cleaner 20A engines have a compression release for starting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Csaw 4 #3 Posted December 1, 2021 The existing Champion CJ6 sparkplug did have a strong, blue spark but replacing it with a new Autolite 254 didn't fix anything. But if you could confirm what you are using, that would be helpful. I confirmed the key was in the crank shaft slot and the fly wheel slot was on the key. I'm pretty sure I remember there only being a single key/slot on the shaft and flywheel so not like it's in the wrong one. With my ohm meter, I could see when I connected it to the condenser that the condenser would charge. I could also see the condenser discharging as expected so I would think that means the condenser is good, but maybe not? If I"m seeing a strong spark could the condenser still be bad? Thinking about compression, it is a little hard/awkward to pull over but maybe that is just because the pull cord is goofy off the back of the recoil and not at the top where I'm used to it with modern saws. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CNew 404 #4 Posted December 1, 2021 Van you tell if you’re getting fuel from the tank to the carb? I have one of these saws (not the Ford version) and when I dug into it I found that the fuel filter and line in the tank were completely clogged and rotten. One of those black levers on top should be a choke too. There’s also a funky plastic reed valve with a rubber seal where it mates to the carburetor. If that think is rock hard or the plastic flaps are cracked it’ll let air in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Csaw 4 #5 Posted December 2, 2021 I’ll have to check that. Would think it would still pop though when I put fuel straight in the plug hole. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CNew 404 #6 Posted December 2, 2021 Good point, direct fuel and no pop while there is spark is odd. If you decide you need a new condenser I think this is the right one for the 20A. https://www.ebay.com/itm/193427935921?hash=item2d093412b1:g:HSUAAOSwwnpemjfc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Csaw 4 #7 Posted December 2, 2021 Have you seen the reed valves for sale anywhere? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CNew 404 #8 Posted December 2, 2021 New: https://www.ebay.com/itm/193890122548?hash=item2d24c07b34:g:JyQAAOSwvHFgJs3X Used: https://www.ebay.com/itm/363531145384?hash=item54a42510a8:g:sJIAAOSwgwBhM5kV Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Csaw 4 #9 Posted December 2, 2021 Hmm…I see a gap in mine on one side which may be a problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Csaw 4 #10 Posted December 3, 2021 To get the fuel line off, does the fly wheel need to come off (again) in order to get that side wall plate off that is up next to the fuel tank? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CNew 404 #11 Posted December 3, 2021 Hmmm, I don’t recall. I’ll have to dig out the saw and study that a little. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Csaw 4 #12 Posted December 4, 2021 (edited) If anyone also has crank seal # or sizes that would be helpful too. Starting to run out of any other ideas. looks like 200041 is the pn for the crank shaft seals. https://myoldmachine.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=35503 Edited December 5, 2021 by Csaw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishnuts2 22 #13 Posted January 17, 2022 On 12/2/2021 at 5:35 PM, Csaw said: Hmm…I see a gap in mine on one side which may be a problem. Flip the petal over. I've pulled on the starter cord too many times to no avail, on an engine with a broken or leaky reed valve. I'm a little smarter now! 1 CNew reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Csaw 4 #14 Posted March 23, 2022 Replaced the 2 crank shaft seals and it now fires. Size are 13x22x5 if anyone needs to order replacements. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CNew 404 #15 Posted March 23, 2022 Where did you find a source for the seals? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Csaw 4 #16 Posted March 23, 2022 13 x 22 x 5 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003107101680.html But this would work https://www.ereplacementparts.com/oil-seal-13x22x5-p-1443576.html or https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/part/honda/91204ke8003 1 Wallfish reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Csaw 4 #17 Posted April 4, 2022 (edited) After replacing the seals, it will fire now only if I put gas in the carb. I took the carb apart and everything was bone dry and the diaphragm was hard. The carb is model hdc-11. I ordered a kdc-10 kit and now too much gas, floods. I noticed that the button on this new diphragm is larger which causes the meter level to be pushed in, unseating the needle. See photo, new on the left, original on the right. For anyone else that has bought one of these kits, how large was the diaphragm button? Edited April 4, 2022 by Csaw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishnuts2 22 #18 Posted April 5, 2022 I had the same thing happen to a carb I was rebuilding. Flooded all the time until i filed the button down to the same height as the original. It's aluminum and won't take very long to fix it . Make sure the gasket is first on the carb base, then the metering diaphragm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Csaw 4 #19 Posted April 15, 2022 On 4/4/2022 at 8:44 PM, Fishnuts2 said: I had the same thing happen to a carb I was rebuilding. Flooded all the time until i filed the button down to the same height as the original. It's aluminum and won't take very long to fix it . Make sure the gasket is first on the carb base, then the metering diaphragm. That fixed it. thank you. Now it's alive! First time it has ran in 50 years. 2 Fishnuts2 and CNew reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Csaw 4 #20 Posted May 16, 2022 Can someone share what their air filter looks like for their Orline 20A saw? Mine is missing and I need to make something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CNew 404 #21 Posted May 16, 2022 https://www.ebay.com/itm/363286493021?hash=item54958ff75d:g:jPsAAOSw55NgIWM2 should be like this one I believe. I’ll check my saw when I get home Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Csaw 4 #22 Posted May 16, 2022 1 hour ago, CNew said: https://www.ebay.com/itm/363286493021?hash=item54958ff75d:g:jPsAAOSw55NgIWM2 should be like this one I believe. I’ll check my saw when I get home thanks. And that filter is just sandwiched between the 2 plates I assume? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CNew 404 #23 Posted May 17, 2022 Yes, as far as I know. I also added a piece of green air filter foam to fill the gap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Csaw 4 #24 Posted May 17, 2022 thanks for the photos. I didn't have the carb to air cleaner seal so I 3d printed one out of TPU. Here's the STL file if anyone needs it.orline air filter gasket.stl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CNew 404 #25 Posted May 18, 2022 Very cool, let us know how the 3DP works. Did you go with Laser sintered powder technology? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites