Ohlsson & Rice: Herter’s Auger / Hard Lesson Learned

[CNew 404]

I ended up learning a hard lesson on buying an item sight unseen and out of state.  In my excitement to find another O&R auger I ended up working out a deal with a seller out of state. They only had a couple very bad photos for me to gauge condition and make my decision but I went ahead with the gamble. I just received it and unfortunately it’s a disappointment. I haven’t been able to spend any time with it yet to completely go through it but after 10 minutes with it I have uncovered a number of issues already:

1. No spark, I had expected this and wasn’t too worried about it.

2. Some previous owner butchered the recoil mechanism and rigged up some strange spacer system comprised of a bolt and nut through the little oil hole. The distance between the inside of the recoil housing was also affected so they added washers as spacers between the blower cowel. They also ground down the threaded shaft and flywheel nut as part of this butcher job. So that’s pretty disappointing. I haven’t spent enough time yet to see if there is any way improve this, not sure it can be truly fixed ithout completely replacing the recoil and crank shaft.

3.  I don’t think the actual aguer is a match to the gear box. It has a ton of slop at the unition and the paint is slightly different color so I’m thinking the auger was replaced at some point along the way.

4. The air cleaner assembly was also cut and welded on poorly made threaded shaft. The welding created other big holes and distortions so the air cleaner assembly is pretty much trash. They also did a terrible job actually trying to thread the throat of the carburetor to accommodate the newly welded threaded end on the air cleaner assembly. 

5. The gas tank needs a thorough cleaning and new guts.

6. Condition of the coil is unknown and it is a bit rusted.

 

More to come as I dig into this project. I’m not sure yet just how far I will actually go with it in terms of fixing it up. It would be nice to at least see if I can get it to run but given all the other issues I might end up just hanging this one on the wall as a reminder to be extra careful in buying sight unseen.  Probably paid a bit too much to learn this lesson...

 

[factory 487]

It looks perfectly restorable to me.

Send it over here. I've fixed worse.

 

David

[CNew 404]

Oh yes, definitely fixable.  I just wasnt expecting this condition based on what I was able to see during the deal. It’s defintely a cool piece!

 

Clint

[Webhead 95]

In my view, the most annoying and painful job on these units is the recoil...

[CNew 404]

I would have to agree. I worked on my first recoil job over the holidays and it was a bit tedious. I didn’t even have to change the spring. I think I have a little technique now so hopefully the next one will be a little easier. 

 

Its really too too bad a previous owner butchered the whole recoil system on this auger.  Strange what some people do to try to fix things. I’ll add some pics once I tear into it more.

 

Clint

[factory 487]

On 1/9/2019 at 2:02 AM, CNew said:

1. No spark, I had expected this and wasn’t too worried about it.

2. Some previous owner butchered the recoil mechanism and rigged up some strange spacer system comprised of a bolt and nut through the little oil hole. The distance between the inside of the recoil housing was also affected so they added washers as spacers between the blower cowel. They also ground down the threaded shaft and flywheel nut as part of this butcher job. So that’s pretty disappointing. I haven’t spent enough time yet to see if there is any way improve this, not sure it can be truly fixed ithout completely replacing the recoil and crank shaft.

3.  I don’t think the actual aguer is a match to the gear box. It has a ton of slop at the unition and the paint is slightly different color so I’m thinking the auger was replaced at some point along the way.

4. The air cleaner assembly was also cut and welded on poorly made threaded shaft. The welding created other big holes and distortions so the air cleaner assembly is pretty much trash. They also did a terrible job actually trying to thread the throat of the carburetor to accommodate the newly welded threaded end on the air cleaner assembly. 

5. The gas tank needs a thorough cleaning and new guts.

6. Condition of the coil is unknown and it is a bit rusted.

 

You shouldn't expect every O&R to be in mint condition, they are around 40 to 50+ years old, most of them were bought to use and some had a much harder life then others (eg, hedge trimmers & crop sprayers in the UK) and people didn't always look after them or store them in a nice dry shed.

It takes time & patience to obtain (or make) the necessary parts for restoring these small engines & their tools, sometimes a donor engine is needed too.

 

1,   No spark, check the usual, points, wiring etc.

2a, Drilled out starter rivet , happens more often than you may think, I suspect in the past it was much harder to find out the correct way without service information. Can be sorted with a new rivet if it isn't drilled out too much (been there fixed one before). Putting your first spring back in is more tricky fun.

2b, It looks a later engine so a replacement crankshaft shouldn't be too hard to get, unlike an early one (like rocking horse poo, I eventually found a bare donor engine for one once).

3,  Pictures of two others suggest the gearbox is indeed a darker blue than the auger section, they probably bought in/out-sourced the auger section rather than make it themselves.

4,  Carb damage, again very common problem, eg. cracked casting where air cleaner attaches, broken off choke lever, broken needle valve & missing bits (look for spare ones or spares engine). Along with missing/damaged air vane or air filter/cleaner assembly.

5,  Dirty and or rusty tanks, most seem to be like this (unless never used), clean if possible, you maybe able to disassemble with a can opener & solder/braze back together (not yet tried this, I'm also thinking of making some tanks from some small coffee tins). Filter often clogged too, can be cleaned using a glass syringe attached to the fuel line pipe to gently pass cleaner solvent or fuel through.

6,  Coil rusty, I've had very few problems with coils, but they are often rusty from bad storage/neglect, clean with small wire brush/wheel (sometimes you can remove the steel core to make this easier).

 

Good luck with the restoration & if let us know if you find more augers, it something my collection lacks and I'm sure Paul would like one too.

 

David

[CNew 404]

David,

    Thank you for all the great advice. After looking at it a bit more I’m actually getting more excited at doing the more in-depth overhaul/restoration on this one. It’ll be fun working through the entire unit and I’m sure I’ll learn a great deal along the way. I’ll definitely keep my eyes open for other augers, I pretty much look on a daily basis and will let you know if I spot one.

 

Clint

[Wallfish 698]

That thing doesn't look too bad to me either. It's definitely a good find!

The auger part isn't a huge let down concerning the over all tool but it sure is better to have the original part. The gear box shaft is 3/4" so you can drill out the auger to 7/8" and insert a 3/4" ID x 7/8" OD bronze bushing then drill the bushing to accept the pin.  My originals aren't the tightest fit either but if there is too much slope at that connection it's an issue.

For the coil laminate piece, that will separate by removing the single screw which locks it together. Remove the coil and you can easily clean it up with a wire wheel.

If the tank is rusty inside, you can fill it with Cider vinegar and let it sit over night, pour out the vinegar and check to see if it needs longer. When it's good wash it out with a little baking soda mixed with water to neutralize the vinegar acid, blow it dry. The cider vinegar will also work well for any of the other rusted parts.

You'll need to post some pictures of what was done with the carb and air cleaner to see if it's salvageable or if it's just better to replace the whole thing.

[factory 487]

The auger section did look original to me, here are two others of the same auger (not mine), both have darker blue paint on the gearbox & lighter blue on the auger bit;

 

#1

 

#2

 

David

[CNew 404]

David,

     Excellent, yes- those both look to be the same as mine. Glad it appears to be original (except the hack job on the air filter). How you come up with all these photos and info is amazing!  I haven’t had a chance to tear into it yet but I did do a couple spot cleaning sections on it just to keep inspired as to what it could look like.  It should clean up nicely and I was actually surprised at how nice the red grips popped!

 

 

Clint

[CNew 404]

Wallfish,

    Thank you for all the suggestions.  I’m definitely going to give these a try.   The bushing idea is great, that should help take out a bit of the slop. I haven’t tried the vinegar approach for gas tank rust but certainly will give it a go. It’ll be fun trying to attach new fuel line to the pick-up filter and nipple inside. It’s just low enough in the tank to make it really trick to reach.  Here are a couple more photos...  I think the air cleaner is junk. The welding melted holes in it. The threading job on the inside of the carb throat is also pretty bad. I suspect with a fresh air cleaner and some minor clean up to smooth down the threads it might still work but certainly swapping out the whole carb would be nice.

[factory 487]

41 minutes ago, CNew said:

David,

     Excellent, yes- those both look to be the same as mine. Glad it appears to be original (except the hack job on the air filter). How you come up with all these photos and info is amazing!

 

I've been researching for many years and saving pictures where I can too, which helps me provide as accurate information as I can and sometimes help date these engines too.

 

It's looking very nice where you've cleaned it up, I'm surprised they didn't fill those holes & paint the air filter. If you want to change the carb & air filter keep a lookout for a cheap incomplete donor engine if you can find one and swap the carb & air filter over, it's certainly a rare enough to be worth doing this to complete it.

 

David

[CNew 404]

I agree, very strange attempt at a repair. The really strange thing is there seems to be no reason to come up with this approach at all. I’m guessing they lost the little hook screw that holds the air cleaner housing and then decided to weld and thread instead of just making a new hook. The holes are huge and the tiny piece of foam that I pulled out wasn’t doing anything either.  I’m definitely on the lookout for donor engines just for that purpose. I’d really like to get this auger up and running again.  In order to pull the engine off it looks like I have to open up the gear box to get to the mounting screws. Having never opened one of these I’m wondering if it has oil or grease inside. Seems I’ve read somewhere that some gear boxes used Lubriplate as the grease but that may have been a chainsaw.  

[Wallfish 698]

6 hours ago, CNew said:

It’ll be fun trying to attach new fuel line to the pick-up filter and nipple inside. It’s just low enough in the tank to make it really trick to reach

Try using a piece of wire. Slip it through the tank nipple and pull it out of the filler neck. Send the end you just pulled out through a piece of fuel line and put a hook on the end of the wire so it can't pull back through the fuel line. Pull  the wire back out of the tank nipple forcing the fuel line on to the nipple inside of the tank. MUCH easier said than done but got this tip from webhead a while back and have had some success doing it. Have had some failures too but it's worth a try.

Those gearboxes for the augers are filled with oil. I use the lubriplate grease for the small gearboxes.

[CNew 404]

Thanks John, that sounds like a great tip for the fuel line - I’ll definitely try it!  Also good to know what to expect as I open the gear box...  it makes sense oil would be used in the larger auger boxes.