Ohlsson & Rice: The Groomer Landscaper 600

[CNew 404]

Starting the tear down of the Landscaper 600. Went ok for the most part but the main spindle won’t come free from the crankshaft. It has a single threaded screw that attaches it to the  end of the crankshaft like most engines. It is really seized up on there. I tried all the usual tapping tricks but still no luck. I also noticed that the entire spindle and crankshaft are super wobbly and loose. I’m hoping it’s not broken inside the engine. The bearings are most definitely shot, hopefully the shaft is not cracked. Not sure what to try next to get this spindle off.

 

Definitely going to take some serious cleaning...

 

[JUST O&R 237]

 love that air filter set up. looks to be all there and in good shape nice unit

[CNew 404]

All the important pieces look to be there. I won’t know until I can get the engine apart but it seems it might be missing a couple pieces on the exhaust collector. I don’t see the usual spacers or gaskets that sandwich the top and bottom of the collector.  

 

This spindle shaft is really being cantankerous- it just wont let go!

[CNew 404]

Success, got the spindle free from the shaft. With the crankshaft being so loose there was about 1/16” of play between the front face mounting plate and the back edge of the spindle. I notched a large washer and slid it into the gap. Then when I smacked the opposite end of the spindle it finally broke free.

 

 

[factory 487]

6 hours ago, CNew said:

I won’t know until I can get the engine apart but it seems it might be missing a couple pieces on the exhaust collector. I don’t see the usual spacers or gaskets that sandwich the top and bottom of the collector.  

 

These late engines are different, there is one thick spacer instead of the stack of thin spacers*, possibly a red gasket for the cylinder too, the induction section should use an O ring seal instead of the two gaskets.

 

Your spare engine should be the same.

 

David

 

*I don't have the thick spacer for my project so had to use the standard parts.

[CNew 404]

Thanks David, good to know!

[factory 487]

Post pictures of what is fitted to the cylinder as I may have the correct NOS gaskets.

 

David

[CNew 404]

Decided to clean up a couple sections just to see how this might look later...

 

[JUST O&R 237]

looks like that will clean up very nice .

[CNew 404]

Yeah, I think so. There’s 40+ years of oxidation and nasty fuel residue and junk but with a little work it’s cleaning up pretty well.

 

Of course the nipple of the gas tank is clogged. Any guesses as to how this might be set up inside the tube? Any chance there is some sort of rubber two-way valve like on some of the later carb inlets?

[factory 487]

No idea, there are only two of these known to exist, probably just a filter, the valve is normally on the carb. I have a very very cheap borescope that could that could find out.

 

Was the handle tubing anodised?

 

David

[CNew 404]

2 hours ago, factory said:

Was the handle tubing anodised?

It didn’t appear to be anodized.  

 

You were right about the exhaust collector set up. Has the red gasket and the one spacer. The induction case also had the o-ring seal. The front end of the induction case has a different type of seal than I’ve seen before. It appears to have a rigid metal core - and it doesn’t look like it can be removed without destroying it. It needs to be replaced but I don’t think I’ve seen any like this before. 

 

I’m thinking the gas tank probably doesn’t have anything special inside it so I’ll gently probe with a piece of wire and see if it will start to clear up. There is an original in-line fuel filter that is external to the tank and goes between the tank and the carb so I’m hoping there isn’t any full line or other filter inside the tank tube.

 

Unfortunately the piston is pretty scored up. The cylinder walls don’t look too bad but something got in there and really gouged the piston.  This newer engine also has a different type of bearing on the main shaft inside the induction case.

[factory 487]

11 hours ago, CNew said:

The front end of the induction case has a different type of seal than I’ve seen before. It appears to have a rigid metal core - and it doesn’t look like it can be removed without destroying it. It needs to be replaced but I don’t think I’ve seen any like this before.

 

I have mentioned these before, you may remember the some later engines having one fitted to the bearing cover behind the flywheel which is replaceable if you can find another, the others are the same but not replaceable as they are fitted behind pressed in parts.

 

From the shaft seals thread;

On 6/22/2019 at 11:27 PM, factory said:

The very late seals are attached to a steel ring, the flywheel side one can apparently be pressed out & replaced (if you could find replacements of course), but the reed valve one cannot be removed as the bearing ring in front of it prevents removal.

 

David

 

This is the seal in the induction case I used for my project, sadly I don't have any more of the induction casings, but do have a couple of the feather valves of the type used in this engine.

 

David

[factory 487]

Here is the service bulletin that mentions the seal change, with the bit about channel locks pliers removed (terrible method of removing the retainer).

 

And the other service bulletin that mentions the type of feather valve with the none-replaceable seal (note; that the parts & part numbers are different to those used on the late production engine).

 

David

[CNew 404]

David, 

These are great, thank you for sharing the service bulletins. Now I at least know what to look for, albeit likely impossible to find. It’s interesting that they went to a non-replaceable seal on something that is a wear item and relatively easy to fix with standard seals. I wonder how much of a difference it would make putting a conventional seal in there.

 

Nice photo by the way, you can see your seal much better. I couldn’t get the lighting right on mine. I have the blue seal like the one you show.

 

Thsnks!

[JUST O&R 237]

I found a seal that will work .

2 hours ago, factory said:

here is a seal # if you just need to replace the seal seem to fit great . timken 342805

 

I bought 10of them when i found that they would work let me know if you need one

[CNew 404]

Thanks JustO&R - nice find!  Is this a different seal than the one you had to modify the retainer ring? I’ll be on the hunt for one, that seal needs to be replaced on my engine. Someone before me installed it backwards and it’s pretty worn out.

[factory 487]

They aren't going to any use for the induction housing as it uses smaller seals for the PTO shaft, as far as I know they are bonded with a metal ring. But will help anyone that has a later engine that needs a new front bearing seal (flywheel side).

They probably changed to these non-replaceable parts so that they could sell the more expensive parts rather than just the seals.

 

Good external lighting & the macro setting on your camera helps with close up pictures like that and editing to remove anything not of interest as the forum resizes images, resolution of small parts will be lost if you don't.

 

David

[CNew 404]

20 minutes ago, JUST O&R said:

I bought 10of them when i found that they would work let me know if you need one

Looks like Timken is now National. Found a couple NOS Timken seals on eBay and it also looks like the same part number is available at the local O’Reillys (as National seals).

[JUST O&R 237]

15 minutes ago, CNew said:

 Is this a different seal than the one you had to modify the retainer ring?

This the same seal I modify the retainer on the old engines so this seal fits the old retainers have a small hole . I made a jig to expand the center of the old retainers

so this seal will work

[CNew 404]

8 minutes ago, factory said:

Good external lighting & the macro setting on your camera helps with close up pictures like that and editing to remove anything not of interest as the forum resizes images, resolution of small parts will be lost if you don't.

iPhone camera is all I have anymore... I’ll have to try editing sometime.

[JUST O&R 237]

1 minute ago, CNew said:

the same part number is available at the local O’Reillys (as National seals).

good luck with that they told me 2 to 3 week to get them

[factory 487]

20 minutes ago, CNew said:

30 minutes ago, factory said:

Good external lighting & the macro setting on your camera helps with close up pictures like that and editing to remove anything not of interest as the forum resizes images, resolution of small parts will be lost if you don't.

iPhone camera is all I have anymore... I’ll have to try editing sometime.

 

Sometimes I use either a torch (aka flashlight) or a desk light to get better lighting, the macro setting will probably be auto selected on your phone (a little flower symbol indicates it's on), I have an older digital camera where you have to manually select it. I find it's quicker to transfer pictures from the old camera to my PC (using it's SD card) then using my newer phone & it's painfully slow USB cable.

 

Better focus on the seal in this picture.

 

Inside with slightly pre-rusted bearing surface, all the NOS parts I have are like this.

 

David

[factory 487]

14 hours ago, CNew said:

This newer engine also has a different type of bearing on the main shaft inside the induction case.

 

What is different about the bearing, is it just the standard later style one?

 

Or are you referring to this type in the crankcase which I've come across a couple of times, this one was in a 13B engine from a hedge cutter.

 

Did you find out why the PTO seemed wobbly/loose?

 

David

[factory 487]

23 hours ago, CNew said:

I’m thinking the gas tank probably doesn’t have anything special inside it so I’ll gently probe with a piece of wire and see if it will start to clear up. There is an original in-line fuel filter that is external to the tank and goes between the tank and the carb so I’m hoping there isn’t any full line or other filter inside the tank tube.

 

This is what I now use to clean the fuel tubing/filters in the tanks & carb, I have several different size glass syringes (the type that survives use with gas/petrol). I use gas/petrol or cleaner and use the syringe with a piece of fuel line to gently soak & push the crude out.

Note: this is best done outside & there is nothing in the syringe in the picture, I tend not to have the camera out when I'm cleaning with petrol.

 

These are the red gaskets (#200600) I have, I believe the one used in these trimmers maybe slightly different (#200600B) as they only use one (don't know if it's thicker ), some of the later engines use two of the red gaskets (#200600A).

Anyway the part #200600 I have is approx 0.036" thick & does have steel wire used in it.

 

David