no spark

[mickrochip 4]

hello folks  

aint been on for a while , tried to start my wheelhorse c141 today, had problems with solenoid , would not even click untill I ran an earth wire from solenoid  terminal to earth, 4 terminal solenoid, after this i got the engine tor turn over quite quickly, i then set the points but got no spark points opening and closing but no spark could it  be the condensor or coil or both , by the way my points have a crack in the insulation just at the movable point , could this be the problem  also 

any help in this matter would be very helpful asI would lik to get this machine going again to toe  my car trailer about the yard

 thanks for any info that will help me

[Stormin 4,458]

 First of I'd replace the points and get a new condenser as well. You may not need a condenser, but handy to have a spare.

[mickrochip 4]

thanks for your info. 

can you recommend someplace where i can get these items  , as most places on ebay seem to be from america with extortionate postage

[Stormin 4,458]

 Try a local garden machinery dealer. Or there is Meetens near Preston, Lancs. Google their web site.

[mickrochip 4]

thanks for your reply , have ordered a set of points, condenser, will let you kow how i get on when i get them

 

[Wristpin 400]

It seems odd that you should simultaneously have both a cranking issue and an ignition one . Faced with that issue and not being familiar with the wiring layout of a 141 I would mentally separate the the two systems and tackle the cranking first.

The fact that you had to bridge the solenoid to ground suggests not just an ignition issue but  a safety switch problem also.  A wiring diagram would help but can you trace the wire that went to the terminal that you bridged to ground. Chances are that it passes through one or more safety switches on its way to ground. I’m not familiar with a 141 but likely candidates are the clutch, the seat or the PTO / blade clutch.

If you have a multimeter , set it to continuity and hook one lead to the wire that you have removed and the other to ground and then work your way round any safety switches until you find the culprit. That should sort the cranking issue leaving the ignition .

If the new points and condenser don’t solve that, identify the “ kill wire” . That is probably a wire from the points that runs to the ignition switch and is grounded when the switch is in the off position - maybe via a safety switch or two.  Disconnect that wire and try for a spark but remember that if the engine fires up there is no way of stopping it.

[mickrochip 4]

thank  you for your reply.the solenoid is no the original one , this one has 4 terminals one for the switch connection , the other tab connection is for the earth, the mounting bracket is not earthed, my problem was all wires being ate by cattle before i got machine, i

[mickrochip 4]

sorry  for that. I had to rewire machine as per c141 wiring diagram, and wired direct without safety switches which were either broke or not working, i have now the cranking side of it sorted out ,now it is just the spark, the points are cra cked at the button in the point that makes the spark , the points and condenser have probably not been changed since this machine was made in 78 or 79 .it is a kohler k321 14hp engine on a c141 8 speed tractor

[Wristpin 400]

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my problem was all wires being ate by cattle before i got machine, 

Now you tell us!  Solenoids with two small terminals are usually only used where the non live terminal is grounded via a safety circuit and not just directly to ground , so there may be the remains of a safety circuited wire floating around. What you have done could be to effectively by- passed a safety system that was designed to prevent the starter from being energised unless certain requirements are complained with - such as the operator on the seat or the clutch / brake held down. However it could be that someone has used a four terminal solenoid instead of a three terminal original. 

A wireing diagram could save a lot of guess work.

[Wristpin 400]

OK, with that out of the way let’s hope that the new points and condenser cures the problem. I recently had an intermittent ignition issue on a Kohler that was caused by the wire from the magneto to the points grounding out where it passed through a metal bracket. The insulation had gone hard and cracked .  Rather than delving into the mag to change the wire I removed the terminal at the points end and slipped a length of heat shrink tube over the wire so that there was no more leakage to ground.  Issue solved and job done for minimum time and parts.

[Stormin 4,458]

  

   BTW. When I first got my C-125, the bottom screw was missing from the points cover. Fitting a replacement screw, I found out why. The cover was slightly damaged, hardly noticeable, and when bottom screw tightened the cover was just touching the points.

[mickrochip 4]

thanks to every body for their info. I just got my points today, and am just about to fit them, but when checking round coil fixings and condenser i found out that the condenser was not connected to earth, problem being that the mounting points have been cracked and broken, the cowl needs some repair around this point , i will earth with a cable for now and either weld cowl or look for another one will let you know later on how i ggot on

[mickrochip 4]

back again, just to let you know that the engine started with the  old points, I just took an earth wire to ground (direct to battery) turned on ignition and engine started and ran ok

i now have a few other problems but that is for another forum on where to get parts like tinware and a breather cover

 so thanks for now

 see you all shortly