wheeledhorseman

Well done Richard for your tenacity in getting to the most likely issue. It is I that bow to your abilities in such matters. I would add another potential variable in that, whilst physically interchangeable and looking at first sight to be identical, deck spindles of the alloy bodied type with plain shafts have varied in design over time. In substituting a good spindle from a rotted out deck during the resto of one of my decks, the shafts were a different diameter which meant the double pulley from the scrap deck had to be transferred across with it. The diameter of the pulley seemed to be the same but I recon its a fair bet there are some decks out there with a wrong sized drive pulley for this reason. The two kevlar belt failures I had are more of a mystery, they were ordered online as being recommended for mower use. They were by a well known belt manufacturer and had the off-whitish / grey outer wrapping (which looks kind of odd on a WH) and had the correct profile. Towards the end of the first season the outer wrapping on each had begun to separate from the belt. As they were on two different tractors with the decks permanently mounted for the season it seemed unlikely that I had a pulley or alignment issue on both but in case there was a problem I replaced the belts with the standard black ones rather than trash more expensive ones again. To date the standard belts are still in good order but obviously are unlikely to last as long in the long term. Possibly there was a manufacturing defect or I suppose there's a chance that the belts were 'copies' from the far east but results from the standard belts tend to indicate that there wasn't an issue with pulley condition or alignment etc. or even the punishment going through long grass that my decks get from time to time.

A few things from experience using wheel horses with cutting decks (three with 42" RD and one with 42" SD) to maintain up to 8 acres of field grass. I tried the more expensive Kevlar belts and found they lasted no longer than the cheaper black ones under the punishment I give them at times. No idea why but I've returned to using the black ones. There's a belt size reference chart downloadable from the RS forum site but I haven't had a lot of luck using it to get the correct belt to the extent of wondering if they don't measure belts differently over there. I get my belts from the local bearing stockists in my town who also stock a full range of v-belts. Where I haven't had an original to take in I've got a measurement using a piece of rope and sometimes that's worked bang on but they've got used to me buying a belt one day then getting them to swap it for one an inch longer or shorter the next which they've always been ok about. A clear advantage of buying locally rather than ordering online. I've found the price is comparable with online when you take delivery into account and if you pay cash but the real benefit has to be the fact they'll change it if its wrong (in my experience). I'm cutting field grass where it's being rested from the real horses (as opposed to wheel horses) grazing it and at times it can be six to eight inches high. In the worst case I've taken out grass nearer to 12 inches high but you have to have the tractor crawling, sharp blades, take about a half deck width pass each time, oh and I have the deck in its raised position which doesn't do the belt a whole lot of good. The grass needs to be pretty dry as well. I regret now not getting a photo when we've had three of the WHs mowing a four acre field. Andy

Is there a verdict yet on the leaving the balance gears out Mark? Reason for asking is that when I used a K301 from something else to replace the beyond economic repair one on my C-120 there were lots of things I had to transfer across but I left out the balance gears based on general consensus of opinion. Engine ran well (and still does) but there are annoying vibrations when the speed of the engine hits the resonant frequency of things on the tractor, most notably the battery sitting in its mounting. In retrospect I wish I'd put them in but overtime you get used to the characteristics of any tractor. IMHO there is a reason for them being there but it's down to what bugs me most, the rattling on my C-100 (with) or the vibrations on the C-120 (without). Nice rebuild BTW, quite understand the tolerances vs use decision. Andy

There could be something in what you're saying Neil but one needs to be cautious about the urban myths surrounding the Amnor plant in Belgium. It was an assembly plant that did not manufacture components. It did have a paint shop to process the parts shipped from the US which were in bare metal form. So taking a couple of things into account i.e. nobody seems to have recognised the bagger in the US and the fact that on a timeline the rather old school design was pretty much obsolete compared with the vac baggers WH were producing by the 1980s it is perhaps possible that it was produced for the US market, didn't sell well, so the stock of parts were shipped to Belgium to be assembled for the European Market to get rid of them. I have found an interesting link to this design on RS submitted by Vincent in Belgium. I remember thinking that this looked a bit 'hookey' when I first saw it but I can see now that it's a rather nifty adaptation of the original design using a wheely bin to collect grass. It even has the same clear hose as shown in the WH brochure. Here's the link http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/30947-new-vacuum-bagger-system-made-in-belguim-orginal-from-wheel-horse/ I agree with Vincent about it being made in Belgium but I thing that is in the context of 'by a previous owner'. Vincent's photos show what the addition belt guard was like which is useful.

Hi Richard, finding time to get back to a 'normal service' is getting easier but as my mother at 83 has dementia and we've moved her down to a home in Romsey so time is still tight shall we say. I've spent hours on the case re identifying the vac-bagger with no luck on the interchange table or the Toro lookup site. I've even put Garry on the other side of the pond on the case and he's struggled to find anything yet other than he thinks it may have been introduced in 1979. I've found references and some detail of the smaller power vacuum that discharges into a dump cart #10 on the brochure I'd forgotten I had. (click to enlarge) but to date no references to the vacuum-bagger. The brochure is a scan of a colour photocopy of the original so not very good quality. Be nice to have a better copy if anyone has an original (Paul M perhaps?) Andy

Great tractor, I'd have been tempted myself but I have one already. An auto is wonderful when it comes to cutting grass for getting in and out of corners effortlessly compared to a manual. Wiring - when you rewire it add a fuse even though these didn't have one as original spec. I had to completely rewire mine as a result of the ignition coil going short circuit internally which cooked the loom and destroyed an almost new set of points and the ignition switch! Rear hitch - I haven't seen a reinforced one like that before but my guess (having just got a vac-bagger) is that this is more than likely the hitch supplied to go with that. The bagger mount locks into the under axle hitch then balances on the rear towing hitch. It weighs a ton before being filled with grass hence my guess re what this is. See http://myoldmachine.com/topic/1873-vacuum-bagger-for-wheel-horse/#entry20428 As your tractor has an SD deck there's a possibility it was originally supplied with a bagger and the hitch it has on it now - again just a guess though. Decals - don't know if anyone noticed the tiny WH logo on the side of the hood by the headlights. One of my D-200s had these on either cheek. Consensus was that these were supplied to dealers as a promotional thing and some dealers or possibly owners did get round to putting them on. They're a rare sight! You can probably just about make it out on this pic if you click on it to enlarge it. If you are going to restore the tractor then Mark (meadowfield) has the artwork for these tiny decals as he made them for my 'D' set. Andy

Stop Press !!!! Doh! I was sitting on a 1970s brochure with the bagger listed! It is genuine Wheel Horse rather than an 'Allied Attachment' and should have a Wheel Horse decal. Just need to find the product code but I bet it's one where Toro have managed to lose the documentation.

Thanks Mark, having had the both Winter and Spring pretty much wiped out as far as hobby stuff goes by aged parent problems including my father passing away in February, I'm slowly beginning to find some time again but there's a backlog of work that should have been done so this project will be for the future sometime. Chris, it's reassuring to know that someone else has seen one of these - hours spent searching the net has failed to come up with even a photo of one let alone any details. I imagine that most ended up rotting away outside in the rain as its a big and heavy thing that's not easily mounted or removed from the tractor, a kind of permanent encumbrance that seemed a good idea at the time but ended up being discarded as being too much trouble. (Dealers managed to sell punters all sorts of things like that!) Thanks Koen, its kind of similar but its belt driven from the tractor rather than being powered by its own engine. As far as I can work out...... The bar 'A' clips into the hitch on the rear axle, the same one used for a snow blade frame. The channel section 'B' rests on the arm of the rear towing hitch. I haven't tried it yet but based on weight and awkwardness it's a two man task to put on for sure. The drive belt goes all the way to the PTO at the front so I'm guessing there was a modified or additional belt guard supplied with it and possibly an idler to mount somewhere on the tractor. When the seller offered to deliver it FOC I jumped at it but it meant I didn't get to see the 312-8 it had originally come to him on. If I'd gone to collect it I'd have been able to see what mods were on the tractor to adapt it to this use. Based on appearance I'd guess it pre-dates the 300 series so it could well have originally been on an earlier tractor. Who knows? Just hoping somebody will jump in and say - thats a......... At a guess it's an aftermarket product produced to fill a gap in the WH range of attachments. I'll probably never end up actually using it but I think it has a certain charm in having a kind of farm machinery look about it. Andy

Having just acquired one of these I'm hoping someone will be able to tell me a bit more about this bit of kit. I first saw one when I picked up my C-100 a few years back from a guy who had a collection of WHs and various attachments. Another appeared on a certain auction site a yearor so later but missing bits and rotting out. Picked this one up for £26 off same site last week with just surface rust and a straight forward resto (famous last words!) The vacuum hose end piece bolts onto a standard 42" WH side discharge cutting deck so designed specifically forthis. The ones I've seen have all been WH red (original paint) but this one has no ID tag or signs of having had a WH sticker on it anywhere. Can't track down manufacturer / model/ manual for it and have had no response to date on the RS forum so maybe it was made in Europe / UK. Hoping someone else remembers coming across one and may know something about them. Andy

Last summer I picked up two trailers for my Wheel Horses. The first, a 1978 10 cu ft which I had to pay an arm and a leg for despite it's condition. These are very rare though the later version made for Wheel Horse by Ohio Steel (bolt assembly type) do come up from time to time. If you're wondering why it has Westwood wheels on it in the photo, well because the original rims had rotted through in many places. Looks reasonable on the outside from this angle but.... it had obviously been outside for many years with water standing in it. The second trailer was the little bath tub 5 cu ft cart. Again it looks okay from this angle and this angle but....... it had two big holes in the tub and ......... the tail end had completely rotted out. I bought it cheap for the wheels to put on the bigger cart but in the end decided to restore both. and on to the larger trailer...... and that's how I spent my winter. Andy

Masterclass Chris- I like it! Thanks for posting. Andy

Made me think that we've a photo in our family collection and here it is: From the early 1930s we think. My wife's mother, uncle and aunt all went to help harvest at the farm in Tetsworth, Oxfordshire when they were children, it was how they spent their summers. Not certain who's who in the photo but the horse was called 'Old Lil' Andy

Late to the party here - sorry. Looks like that 'bad boy' is capable of some serious work Matt - love the hydraulics. Makes my D-200s look like toys - but I luv 'em to bits none the less. Great find, gonna be a great project. Andy

We have ways to misinform the enemy - some subtle, others less so.

What Neil is saying (I think) is that you've got a 'Celebrity Horse' there Ian. You may recall that I have one in my stable also. Andy

Well made indeed Mark I take it your missus wasn't keen on the prototype with mitre saw mounted on it - useful addition in the kitchen I'd have said but I guess they see it differently. Andy

They were conceived in the 1920s to replace the use of horses to pull goods round factory sites. The idea took off and they became common sights in factories, at railway stations, naval dockyards, airfields and horticultural sites to name a few uses. The one we have is a 1 ton load capacity with a long bed but there were short bed ones designed to pull a train of four wheel carts behind for lighter goods. Frustrating thing is that a friend who used to deal in ex military surplus had several of the carts but ended up sending them for scrap as nobody was interested in buying them. Diesel engines were introduced in the 1960s I think. Google Lister Autotruck or Lister Auto Truck and there's quite a bit of info and even some videos on youtube. Its difficult to research much about these in general even more so ones used by the Navy. There's just one in navy museum and that's imaginatively marked up with 'Royal Navy' on each side of the load section. As far as we can tell it should just have RN on each side and an inventory number stencilled on the engine compartment. They normally have a typical Lister in script on each side of the engine cover but the Navy tended to paint over things like that so we haven't put them back. The RN and inventory number are on the to do list. There's an RAF one in a museum which we were tempted to copy but Jez decided on Navy. They have a reverse gear but yes you can spin the whole driving section round. Ours is a petrol model from the late 40s - early 50s period. It's almost impossible to make it go backwards this way without serious risk as you can't reach the controls properly. With the later diesel type (first photo) it is possible as a stunt but not necessarily a sensible thing to do. You actually turn it using the handle bar which also has the throttle on it, there's a foot brake that operates on the rear wheels but that's all you use your feet for. Thanks for the interest Andy

Nigel The more I see of your imaginative work the more ideas I get for future projects if only I had the time and space. Keep posting them - its like visiting a world where anything is possible. Thanks for sharing it with us. Andy

Ever thought about publishing a book of all these amazing things you build out of scrap? Best gloss over the fact that this project was based on a rare (even in the US) REO though. Andy

Very much my son Jez's project, about the only thing I helped with was getting it to run and splitting the rims of the rear wheels to get the tyres off - it took two of us using the 10 ton press where rust was holding everything solidly together. Andy

You're quite correct Tom I did post a photo of 'Mister Lister' as we know him on RS in the non-tractor related section when it first arrived. Next time we get it out for a run I'll get some video footage to post. Not too difficult to steer but perched up quite high on the seat and being a three wheeler it can be a little unsettling to go over uneven ground even though it has a low centre of gravity. This one has a one ton load carrying capacity, they did make a two ton model with double back wheels. Andy

A tale of two Lister Autotrucks My son is on the organising team for the Isle of Wight Steam Show and spends a week over there helping to set up the show and camping. Back in 2012 and with some time to spare he dragged an autotruck out of the brambles where it had been left outside for several years to see if he could get it going. Having managed to get it to run it was given a good clean up, a bit of paint here and there, and put in the show. That's me having a go - great fun but a bit scary on eneven ground! Turned out it was owned jointly by several guys associated with the railway where the show is held but they wouldn't sell it even though it had been left outside to rot. Anyway, my son had to have one and here it is. Not a diesel like the example above but JAP petrol engine powered. Bought as a non-runner that used to run it was soon running again but it does burn oil as you can see. Over the winter it was dismantled, shot blasted etc and emerged in Royal Navy livery as both my son and I collect and restore military vehicles. It made it to a couple of shows last year (Overlord military show and Netley Marsh) but still needs some bits and bobs finishing. Things like the toolbox, foot gong (we've been told it was probably originally a railway's autotruck based on having one) and some RN markings still need to be done. We haven't touched the engine yet, having had no experience of rebuilding a 600cc JAP or knowing what the availabilty of parts is like but it will need doing as if you run it long enough the plug oils up. Any info from those with any experience out there in MOM land welcome. Andy