Tiny Tiger? (POWR-MITE Generator Model 3)

[Generatorguy 2]

Hi all,

One of the kids who work for me picked up this little generator at an estate auction.  It didn't run but was together (unsure if complete) when he bought it.  He took it to a local small engine shop and as you'll see from the pics, came back in a box.  So now it's my project and I've never worked on anything like this before.

 

Stampings are: Type 111 on the exhaust side, 048537 on the carb side, and a large 11 or II on the pto end.

 

I've scoured this forum and have seen lots of tiny tigers but this one appears to be older and with a different alternator than the tigers.  The diaphragm looks homemade, the spring roller is missing (I found the ball wedged under the spring thankfully),  the felt washer and cup for the recoil are missing, obviously the recoil doesn't work, but everything else seems to be accounted for.

 

I have managed to put the recoil back together and ready to go back in, the carburetor body and parts I have are all cleaned up.

 

I'm wondering if i can just cut down a diaphragm for a bigger carb or if the material will be too thick.  I'm working on tracking down needle rollers of the right diameter to use for the spring roller but not sure how much luck I will have.  I have no idea what to do about the missing recoil parts.

 

Any suggestions or advise you may have would be great.  Thanks!

Just some additional pics...

[Wallfish 698]

It may be badged "Powr Mite" but it's the same as a tiny tiger.

The roller diameter is not that critical in my opinion. Use just about anything close and cut to length. I've used the metal rods which are for holding up pink insulation between floor joists.

PM me your address and name, I have some diaphragms for $10 each. Having a good diaphragm is critical.

 

Clean the points contacts under the flywheel and check for spark. I see some repairing on that coil so you want to check for spark. Leave the plug out and you can spin the flywheel by hand to check for spark.

[Generatorguy 2]

Thanks!  First guy to work on it said it ran if he fed it gas so spark is probably good.  I will clean and gap the points for sure.  I'm thinking I'll peel off the silicone and fix it right though.  Are the missing recoil parts something I can get?

 

I've also found the governor gromet is in pretty bad shape.  Is this anything special or can I use anything that fits the bracket and doesnt pinch the governor arm?

[CNew 404]

Cool generator!  

 

I was able to find small rubber grommets at my local hardware store - like an Ace Hardware that fit for the Governor vane.  I’ve had to make the little roller piece as well like Wallfish said - I think I found some rod/wire at a Hobby shop that was the right diameter.

 

FYI- I think if you look up O&R Chainsaw right now on eBay you’ll find the recoil cup. These don’t come up often and I thought about buying it myself but you are in need of it now for this project and I would just keep it for use as a future spare.  Let me know if decide not to buy it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/O-R-PART-PN-131-1/193041941720?hash=item2cf23244d8:g:GIQAAOSw9rtdTx~Z:sc:USPSFirstClass!55406!US!-1

[Generatorguy 2]

Thanks for the find!  There are two available.  I'll buy one since this is probably the only one of these engines I'll ever see if you want the other for a spare.  Can I just cut a piece of felt washer to fit?

[CNew 404]

Thanks for noticing there are two for sale. I might grab one after all. I’ve bought fromthat seller before and he does fast shipping.  

I would think a simple piece of felt would work. This is probably more than you’d ever need https://www.mcmaster.com/felt

[Wallfish 698]

3 hours ago, Generatorguy said:

Can I just cut a piece of felt washer to fit?

Yes. That felt washer is there just to hold oil. The original rivet has a hole through the center for adding a couple drops of oil (With the repair for the cup using a rivet or nut and bolt you won't be able to oil it through the oil hole anyway.)

[factory 487]

It's the same design as the Tiny Tiger, POWR MITE is a re-brand, they have also removed the raised Tiny Tiger lettering from the alternator end housing.

Type 111 is the engine model and is commonly found on older Tiny Tigers, the other number is the engine serial number.

I can't see the base plate in your pictures, which is maybe why it looks different to other Tiny Tigers, here is one I made (on the right) out of a stainless steel offcut, the original is aluminium.

 

Be sure to check out the carb rebuild 'sticky' thread if you haven't already seen it. I've got various rods/shafts salvaged from broken cassette players & other scrap electronic items, they can be cut to size with a Dremel (or similar tool) to fit the carb.

 

Can you confirm if the missing 'cup' from the starter is actually the crankshaft thrust disc (#148-3) that goes in loose with the felt oil washer. These parts are not actually mentioned on any of the early 1960's parts lists, maybe they weren't used before 1964? I need to check this.

 

Part #131-1 is the bearing for the starter reel and I can't see why it would be missing unless someone had removed out the rivet (which shouldn't need to be removed do to rebuild the starter mechanism), please confirm.

 

The grommet is a standard part that you should be able to find easily, commonly used on electrical/electronic panels to protect wiring/cables that pass through.

 

David

[Generatorguy 2]

3 hours ago, factory said:

It's the same design as the Tiny Tiger, POWR MITE is a re-brand, they have also removed the raised Tiny Tiger lettering from the alternator end housing.

Type 111 is the engine model and is commonly found on older Tiny Tigers, the other number is the engine serial number.

I can't see the base plate in your pictures, which is maybe why it looks different to other Tiny Tigers, here is one I made (on the right) out of a stainless steel offcut, the original is aluminium.

 

Be sure to check out the carb rebuild 'sticky' thread if you haven't already seen it. I've got various rods/shafts salvaged from broken cassette players & other scrap electronic items, they can be cut to size with a Dremel (or similar tool) to fit the carb.

 

Can you confirm if the missing 'cup' from the starter is actually the crankshaft thrust disc (#148-3) that goes in loose with the felt oil washer. These parts are not actually mentioned on any of the early 1960's parts lists, maybe they weren't used before 1964? I need to check this.

 

Part #131-1 is the bearing for the starter reel and I can't see why it would be missing unless someone had removed out the rivet (which shouldn't need to be removed do to rebuild the starter mechanism), please confirm.

 

The grommet is a standard part that you should be able to find easily, commonly used on electrical/electronic panels to protect wiring/cables that pass through.

 

David

I do have the base plate, it's just attached to a largish sheet of plywood so was removed for tinkering purposes.

 

Yes, the missing items for the recoil are the thrust disc and oil washer.  The rivet in the housing is still there but the piece it holds is gone (131-1).  I have ordered the bearing.

 

I'm not sure about serial number or manufacture date breaks...that's why I found you guys.  👍 there is also no diaphragm gasket which is common in earlier engines I guess but not sure since the intake has been worked on before by more than one other person.

 

Pulled the tank off and have it soaking after a trip through the ultrasonic cleaner.  New fuel lines and the rest of the parts for the carb (thanks wallfish) and I can at least test fire it.  Aside from the missing pieces and years of neglect, it seems to be well kept and in good order.  I'll pull the end off the alternator and check wiring tomorrow but I doubt it will need more than some air to blow the dust out.

[factory 487]

Good to hear it was the correct part for the starter mechanism, was it obviously drilled out from the back or broken/fallen out?

 

Engine serial # 048537, from my information the best estimate I can give for when it was made is 1963, only engines produced after June 1967 can be dated to the exact month of production (they have the year & month coded as part of the SN).

 

John (Wallfish) had the paper diaphragm gaskets & the carb check valve laser cut too.

 

If you have the air filter asembly don't forget to clean out all the perished crumbly filter foam.

 

You may find the rubber wiring inside the alternator is perished, same as the magneto coil wires go on these early engines.

The guide from John (Wallfish) should help even though it's for the larger tank version of the Tiny Tiger, the alternator section is the same.

 

And the Tiny Tiger instructions I scanned also has disassembly instructions;

David

[Generatorguy 2]

Thanks David.

 

I see that the diaphragm gaskets started after serial number 104651.  Is it a good idea to use this gasket even though my serial number is prior?

 

I have read all the threads you linked and will be using them for reference.  Great info!

 

The original check valve is still there (black rubber material just like was shown in the pics in the carb repair thread, and appears in good shape.

 

I found a suitable roller today.  Needle roller out of a small wrist pin bearing of unknown application.  Was in a box of NOS at my shop and had 2 rollers missing...measures 0.0625" on the money.  Needs to be trimmed to length but it was a good find.  I didn't have time to look for a grommet for the governor.  Time to bust out the mallet and go to work on the alternator.  Will check back soon!

[factory 487]

It should be fine to use the diaphragm gasket, there is nothing in any service bulletins about the change, one of many small changes/improvements they did over the years.

 

The rubber material used for the earlier check valve was the same as used for the diaphragm, I've had one that wouldn't stay flat and another missing the little valve part, they changed to using a better material later on but never changed the part number.

 

David

 

 

[Generatorguy 2]

Thanks David,

 

Have some updates today.  Cleaned the points breakers and re-gapped.  Installed the new recoil cup and was able to get it tight using the original rivet so I still have an oil hole!  Also rewound the recoil and got that back in after more than a few choice words.  Had some minor cracking to the rubber insulation on the alternator leads...will heat shrink them later today.  Installed my newly fashioned spring roller along with all the other bits so the bottom part of the carb is all back together.

 

Nice pretty blue spark from the plug, good compression, and good leakdown test so I'm in pretty good shape there.

 

Fuel tank ended up being pretty clean.  Screen wasn't plugged and just some varnish inside.

 

Thanks to all for the help so far!

-Shaun

[Generatorguy 2]

Fuel question:

 

I understand that 32:1 with a non synthetic 2-stroke oil is the recommended mixture but...

 

I have access to 100LL avgas.  Local regional airport has pumps that are open to the public.  Its higher octane but is leaded fuel which I presume these engines were designed to run on.

 

Would this fuel be too hot and burn up pistons?  I run a mixture of jet-a and diesel in my old international tractors and they run awesome with it!  I use strictly 100LL in my chainsaws, lawn mowers, weed trimmers etc with no issues.  It stores very well and has none of the "crud" issues we all find in auto gas.  Just a thought and figured I'd throw it out there and see what you guys thought.

 

Have a great weekend

-Shaun

[factory 487]

Sounds like your nearly finished, I had fun getting my first starter spring back in too.

 

Yes we recommend a 32:1 oil/fuel mix with non synthetic (mineral) 2-stroke oil, so far only one forum member has said that the synthetic oil they tried caused problems with an O&R.

 

@usedtoolman recommended using avgas as it supposedly doesn't contain the ethanol that is added to regular auto gas. It may run hotter but I can't see it being a major problem as nitro/glow fuel was used in the model helicopters & some model boats.

The LL seems to be low lead, I've never tried it myself as I'm not near any airports. Some premium gas in the UK is supposed to have no or lower ethanol, finding a station that sells it is the problem and the people behind the counter don't always know what they are selling.

 

David

 

EDIT:

Here is an old post with a link that may help with finding ethanol free gas in the US & Canada

 

On 12/16/2018 at 2:45 AM, factory said:

This site looks very useful for finding ethanol free fuel in the US & Canada;

https://www.pure-gas.org/

I noticed there was no labelling (E no.) on the pumps at the nearest station to my work in the UK.

David

 

I've noticed in the last couple of months the pump nozzles at large petrol stations in the UK are now labelled E5 for ethanol tainted petrol/gas (or B7 for biodiesel), apparently this labelling become mandatory on Sept 1st in the UK, so it should help us avoid that stuff for our old engines.

 

David

Edited September 8, 2019 by factory
More info

[Generatorguy 2]

Non-ethanol is pretty easy to find around here, was just curious if leaded fuel would be better.   Avgas has zero ethanol, It's leaded, and smells like it'll blow up if you smoke near it...its wonderful stuff 😁.

[factory 487]

I can't say for certain, but I can't see it making much difference for an O&R. It will reduce valve seat wear in older 4-stroke engines and of course there are engines that pre-date leaded fuels too, did they have to regrind valve seats more often?

 

One of the aviation forums I found did mention how to test a sample of fuel for ethanol using water;

https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1596038#p1596038

 

David

[Generatorguy 2]

Parts from Wallfish (thank you very much!) arrived this week and I have a question about reassembly.

 

I saw a few posts in the carb repair thread that mentioned using adhesive to stick the diaphragm disc to the membrane.  Is this required, and if so, what is recommended for adhesive?

 

Thanks!

Shaun

[factory 487]

That information was from a service note where they apparently had problems with wear, not sure how much use it would take to wear out the diaphragm disc as they imply, I added the service bulletin to the carb thread (post #52) as it had been asked about before, when someone found a later one (with the smaller disc) glued to the diaphragm.

Personally I haven't glued any of mine, I can't see it being a problem as I only run them for short periods.

 

David

[factory 487]

It was forum member @tackdriver56 that found one of those later glued/bonded diaphragm discs, he used Seal-All to attach it to the new diaphragm.

 

On 2/16/2015 at 2:10 AM, tackdriver56 said:

Webhead: diaphragm received and metal disc transplanted with Seal-All adhesive. Curing overnight. Tomorrow will be the moment of truth...

 

David

[Generatorguy 2]

Well...it runs, makes power, and carries a load.

 

Rpm hunts around some.  I don't have my tach with me but output voltage is between 115 and 175vac.  Hunting seems to come and go and when its slowing down there is a very audible vibration coming from somewhere...thing is too loud to tell where from but it's there.

 

Also, I know this one has a smaller tank on it but it only runs 10 minutes or so on a tank of gas.

 

Carb needle is just shy of 3/4 turn out from seated.  Sputters and smokes and output voltage drops considerably if I back it out any more than that.

 

So I guess my question is whether this is considered normal operation?

Edited September 22, 2019 by Generatorguy
Added needle setting

[Wallfish 698]

9 hours ago, Generatorguy said:

So I guess my question is whether this is considered normal operation?

 

No (and yes). My guess is the crank case seals are leaking (like most) A 2 stroke can run with leaking case seals but for best performance the case needs to be sealed.

[factory 487]

One of my Champ generators behaves the same way, i.e. it empties the tank in about 15minutes, I never investigated it further but suspect a leak or bad shaft seals.

 

Was the RPM hunting and changing voltage due to no load? I do know that some earlier carbs don't have the carb quadrant for adjusting the governor spring tension to suit the required load.

 

Vibration is common with these engines, any screws that weren't fully tightened usually unwind themselves as a result.

 

David

[Generatorguy 2]

Engine behaves the same whether there is load present or not.  I had between 1 and 2 Amps (120-240w) on it depending on how many switches I hit at once.  Runs great for 3-4 minutes then starts popping some (not like a backfire, just skips a stroke every couple seconds).  When it does this it will puff out the exhaust what i assume is the unburned combustion materials.  If it does this long enough it'll bog down and almost rattles for 10 seconds or so and comes right back.  It's hard to tell but almost sounds like the governor fin rattling against the recoil housing or the recoil itself making noise.

 

I did run 4 tanks through it while I was load testing it and it seemed to run better after it cleaned itself out some.  Had lots of goopy nasty black oil dripping off the muffler the first 2 tanks...black like molasses and just as sticky.  I'm going to pull the plug tomorrow night and replace it.  I can't imagine oil that old and/or misfiring has done it much good.  After that it's up to the owner to decide how far into it he wants to get.  Wish it was mine...I'm kind of hooked on this thing now!

 

I'm quite impressed with this little engine though.  Sounds mean as hell for its size and it loves being loaded when it's running well.  It starts surprisingly well.  Few pumps on the primer and it barks the second pull on full choke.  Starts and runs on half choke on the 3rd pull then open it up and go!

 

Shaun