O&R Tiny Tiger Parts

[factory 487]

On 11/8/2019 at 8:51 PM, JUST O&R said:

David I WILL AD PICS BUT YES ITS A MODEL B II  ser 102646. cylinder is good just trying to make it look like it should

if I'm correct it should have a uy-6 in it???? like to make them as close as I can. but sometime we have to make due .

I found a cylinder that will work for JD's generator but the crank has two keys in it . its taper  but Ive never had one apart so

don't know if it will work

 

Apologies for not responding quicker, I've been very busy with family this weekend.

 

Very strange that the Model B engine has the gearbox, I do wonder if a new engine was fitted to the gearbox from another older engine, it should really have a different letter or number to identify the gearbox type, maybe a repair shop never stamped those details, I guess we will never know.

It should still be possible to find out the gearbox type by the numbers of teeth on each gear & if there is a clutch fitted (or not).

 

If my information is correct serial numbers around #100000 date from the time that the Compact I, II, & III were available, possibly they were using up stocks of old parts when the updated Compact III engine became available, for example I have SN #099677 stamped as a Compact I with 10mm spark-plug and SN #103001 stamped as a Compact III with a 14mm spark-plug.

 

Hopefully I can find time to double-check both types of tapered PTO shaft will fit during the week or next weekend.

 

David

[CNew 404]

On 11/7/2019 at 6:33 PM, JDB44 said:

Bench is a mess..... that's years of projects. Should see the area around the bench.

I can't find anything when I clean it up!

Will see what I can do to get Gen off. Looks like need to disassemble generator to get off of block. Will post picture when I do and cylinder.

 

Just now starting to get things unpacked and set up in the project room. Starting with a fresh work bench...  won’t stay pretty for long!

[JUST O&R 237]

I don,t see how you can find anything on that bench

 

[factory 487]

Nice, I could do with a couple of those and a bigger shed, my bench is always full.

 

3 hours ago, JUST O&R said:

I don,t see how you can find anything on that bench

At the floor is mostly clear for when the inevitable happens and small parts disappear off the bench, I never did found that gudgeon pin clip that pinged off into a lower earth orbit though.

 

David

[CNew 404]

I’m anxious to get it messy and start working on some engines!

 

David - I feel your pain, I’ve had a few small parts bounce off and disappear... it’s amazing sometimes how things go off into oblivion. 

[Wallfish 698]

25 minutes ago, CNew said:

it’s amazing sometimes how things go off into oblivion

I'm guessing they end up in Utopia along with the missing socks from the dryer. Lots of free stuff goes there! Lol

[JDB44 0]

Well finally got around to removing the generator from the crankcase. No I didn't get around to cleaning the work bench! Shaft is slightly tapered. Now to find either parts to rebuild or decent decent crankcase and cylinder. Suggestions appreciated!

Work bench will need thorough cleaning and sorting after this!

No key way cut in shaft.

[factory 487]

22 hours ago, JDB44 said:

Now to find either parts to rebuild or decent decent crankcase and cylinder. Suggestions appreciated!

 

I thought you needed a piston, con-rod & bearings, what was the problem with the cylinder? I've cleaned up cylinders with a brake cylinder hone tool.

I'm curious as to what state the internals are in, did it fail because of a broken plastic bearing cage or something else?

 

I can't think of any other suggestions that we haven't already mentioned, i.e. finding a donor engine or engine block only.

 

David

[JDB44 0]

I think all that is needed is the piston, connecting rod and bearings. Look like the plastic bearing cage failed causing the damage to the piston. 

Hoping someone here might have what I need. Fearful buying sight unseen from eBay may get a junker in same shape.....or worse.

[CNew 404]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/O-R-O-R-32MM-PISTON-PN-37-5/192849706702?hash=item2ce6bcfece:g:-v8AAOSwtCFcgWPS

 

I think this is the piston...

[factory 487]

Now we have a picture that shows the engine serial number (#027xxx) I can tell you that it dates from around the end of 1962.

The most appropriate parts list for you engine is the May 1962 one, which can be found here:

 

18 hours ago, CNew said:

I think this is the piston...

 

That piston (#37-5) is for later engines, using it would need a set of wrist pin rollers, wrist pin washers, a change of con-rod and different crankshaft bearings.

 

I still recommend finding a later donor engine, that will provide all the later improved parts, including the upgraded bearings with steel cages, the use of plastic cages was a major design flaw with these earlier engines.

I've no idea why they decided they thought the plastic cages were a good idea, as the model plane engines they built before the Compact engines used metal bearing cages.

 

David

[factory 487]

Parts for use with original piston #37-4 are;

#A-27-11 con-rod bearing set

#31-1 con-rod

#A-33-13 piston rings set

#36-2 or #A-36-2 wrist pin

#42-10 crankshaft

 

Replacement parts required for use with piston #37-5 (use with wrist pin roller bearing) are;

#A-20-5-13-7 con-rod bearing set, includes #7-22 washers (must be used with slotted con-rod)

#A-20-7-19-7 wrist pin bearing set, includes #7-24 washers

#31-2 con-rod

#A-33-13 piston rings set

#36-6 wrist pin (use with wrist pin roller bearings)

#42-10 crankshaft

 

If the crankcase is damaged/cracked then part #A-35-3 would be needed.

All parts to be re-used would need a thorough cleaning to remove any trace of metallic particles from the failed bearings to avoid a repeat failure.

 

David

[Wallfish 698]

23 hours ago, JDB44 said:

I think all that is needed is the piston, connecting rod and bearings. Look like the plastic bearing cage failed causing the damage to the piston. 

Hoping someone here might have what I need. Fearful buying sight unseen from eBay may get a junker in same shape.....or worse.

I've got what you want. A used piston with wrist pin, slotted rod, and bearings plus new #A-20-5-13-7 con-rod bearing set, includes #7-22 washers (must be used with slotted con-rod)

Think I can find a set of rings and a used head with a 10mm plug hole. you'll probably need some gaskets like the thin induction paper gasket

[JDB44 0]

Wallfish, sent you a pm on the piston. Any thoughts on who may have gaskets? Would gasket from my cylinder possibly work or could I make them?

[CNew 404]

https://allstategasket.com/info_gasket_material_style-1165.asp

 

I have some of the 0.006” Vegetable paper gasket material from this link. It might work for the thin induction gasket but you have to cut them.

[Wallfish 698]

10 hours ago, JDB44 said:

Wallfish, sent you a pm on the piston. Any thoughts on who may have gaskets? Would gasket from my cylinder possibly work or could I make them?

I'll find you some gaskets if you let me know what you need. The majority of gaskets can be reused if they weren't ruined when taking it apart

[factory 487]

19 hours ago, Wallfish said:

I've got what you want. A used piston with wrist pin, slotted rod, and bearings plus new #A-20-5-13-7 con-rod bearing set, includes #7-22 washers (must be used with slotted con-rod)

Think I can find a set of rings and a used head with a 10mm plug hole. you'll probably need some gaskets like the thin induction paper gasket

 

By the way there are two sizes of slotted con-rod, #31-2 is the correct one for this engine, #31-3 is for later engines that have bigger main shaft bearings & con--rod bearings.

Here is a comparison of the shafts from a older 3/4HP engine (top) and a later 1HP engine (bottom), note the differences, it can get very confusing as to which parts are interchangeable.

 

The original cylinder maybe OK once cleaned and inspected for damage, a brake cylinder hone can be used if needed.

Don't forget to check the condition of the crankcase, the TT I had with a catastrophic bearing failure had lots of dents inside and was cracked through as well (so far this is the only engine found with this failure mode in my collection).

 

David

[factory 487]

18 hours ago, JDB44 said:

Wallfish, sent you a pm on the piston. Any thoughts on who may have gaskets? Would gasket from my cylinder possibly work or could I make them?

These are the cylinder gaskets used for the 3/4HP engine.

I have made these using some NOS ones to check the sizes, it's probably not worth buying a sheet of material unless you intend to restore lots of O&R's.

Note that the cylinder gaskets are made from thicker material (also more heat resistant) than the induction case gaskets (and once again later engines differ ).

 

Also a new cylinder O ring would be a good idea.

 

David

[JDB44 0]

Wow, you guys are a wealth of knowledge and help. Since I have a few days off let me start taking the induction end off and breaking things down. Will have a better idea of what gaskets stay intact and how the crankcase looks after pulling crank and piston. Will lay everything out and photo.

[Wallfish 698]

I'll find you the right parts to fix it. I might have the whole kit and kabootle. Have the holiday day off tomorrow.

[Wallfish 698]

Got all ambitious and dug through some old stuff and found this. Between the one you have and this you should have enough to get going again. Compression feels good but it probably has the old type plastic cage bearings, but when or if this one fails we'll fix you up again so there's nothing to loose. I'll remove the the generator section unless you need it. One thing for sure, the parts will fit. PM me your address Charlie and I'll send it to you. No charge because I have no idea of the full quality of the parts inside. BUT you have to post some pics and tell us how you made out.

Type 111

SN 034701

 

[factory 487]

That looks like a good donor engine , I used a bare engine block of similar age for my TT repair*, that ensured the parts would fit together with the remaining original parts.

 

*My failed TT engine was SN #035753 (Type 111), it was bought as a pile of bits, it was missing the crankshaft, piston, con-rod and con-rod bearing. The donor engine block was #012461 (Type 98) which had been used for a RC application by a previous owner, hence lots of missing parts.

 

Before & donor engine.

 

Some pictures from the restoration, it's also the only TT I have with the generator end housing finished in chrome.

 

One of the missing parts was the long truss head screw for holding the generator rotor in place, a new one was machined from scratch, OK I deliberately made it a little bigger in places.

 

David

Edited November 28, 2019 by factory

[JDB44 0]

Wallfish, man you are fantastic. Will PM you shortly. David that engine/generator turned out great. 

Here are pics of the engine disassembled. Included pics of debris from damaged bearing cage and piston. 

 

 

[JDB44 0]

[Wallfish 698]

Try soaking the seals and orings in carb cleaner for a few hours. It causes them to swell and softens them a bit too. I used to do that before I had a stash of nos parts to use and it seemed to work well to get everything sealed. I just don't know for how long it lasts.

Using a tube of Lubriplate 105 engine assembly grease is probably a good idea too. Might as well go through everything, clean allthe pieces and especially the bearings and grease during assembly.