Carb part question

[Brian Lynch 19]

Hi all,

 First post. Not a small engine newbie, been in the field for close to 45 yrs. Had wrenches in my hands since I don't know when. Dabbled in bikes, sleds, mowers, etc. when I was young. Worked for a Wheel Horse dealer for 3 yrs, then went to John Deere for 10 yrs. Freelanced for another 15 with my own brick & mortar shop. Left the small engine repair business in 2012 but still keep my finger on the pulse of what is new.

Recently I had a friend drop off a Drillgine to get running. It's in very good shape, has a 13B engine.

My question pertains to the brass object attached to the diaphragm chamber. Is this a fuel filter or a check valve? Can't get any fuel through it. It looks like someone either tried to remove it at one time or replaced it..

The rest of the carb is in excellent condition. Thanks for your help! -Brian

[CNew 404]

Someone more knowledgeable than me will likely respond but I think I had one of those once and it was just completely clogged with dried fuel/oil mix. It took a lot of poking with small tools and frequent spraying with B12 carb cleaner.  I don’t think the one I had had any screen or anything inside it but I’m not certain.

[Brian Lynch 19]

Cnew, I'm going to try a bout of carb cleaner with this like you did. Maybe I'll get lucky, maybe not.

[CNew 404]

It’s worth a try. I was surprised just how solid that old oil/gas can get. If you remove all the inside parts from the carb, especially gaskets and the little plunger with the rubber tip then you should be able to soak it in carb cleaner. I think I ended up using a needle or small paper clip to get in there and dig out all the gunk.

[Wallfish 698]

No. DON"T use carb cleaner in it. It's a check valve with a rubber type of flapper inside and carb cleaner will swell it closed and locked. Hopefully I'm not too late.

BTW

Typcally you can push it open with the flat end of a paper clip or better yet the butt end of a drill bit that just fits inside but you gotta go easy and feel for it. Then try and blow through it to see if it's loose. Once loose you can use something that won't swell the rubber. I've been using citris degreaser for cleaning my engines recently and it disolves that old 2 stroke oil pretty good. Never tried for that but if you can keep pushing that stuff through eventuality it should clean it. then check the valve by blowing the other way and you should'nt be able to. then go back and blow and hopefully you're all set.

When all else fails, drill a hole through it using that drill bit you tried with earlier. That's what I had to do after carb cleaner

[CNew 404]

Interesting, well that’s good to know. Mine didn’t have anything like that, maybe the previous owner had already ruined it.

 

SORRY for the bad advice. Hope you didn’t get too far with this before Wallfish stepped in.

[Wallfish 698]

2 minutes ago, CNew said:

Interesting, well that’s good to know. Mine didn’t have anything like that, maybe the previous owner had already ruined it.

 

SORRY for the bad advice. Hope you didn’t get too far with this before Wallfish stepped in.

Eventually you will run into them. They should have changed the whole carb design but instead they just kept throwing on band aids like that check valve. The carb is the worst thing on these engines but maybe they were ahead of their time. Make stuff so it fails after a while so you need to get it fixed or buy a new one.

[CNew 404]

8 minutes ago, Wallfish said:

No. DON"T use carb cleaner in it. It's a check valve with a rubber type of flapper inside and carb cleaner will swell it closed and locked. Hopefully I'm not too late.

BTW

 

Now you’ve got me curious, how does the little valve work inside that brass nipple? I know the little lever/plunger inside the carb seals it up with the little rubber piece in place of the little steel check ball like on the other style carbs but I can’t think of how an additional valve inside the brass nipple would be activated.

[Wallfish 698]

2 hours ago, Brian Lynch said:

Worked for a Wheel Horse dealer for 3 yrs,

I'm also a Wheel Horse collector and user. See you went to the dark side with JD. LoL

Had about 20-25 at one point but slowed down some. Down to 2 RJ-58s, a 400 and 401, 654, 655 416-8 with Ark loader and home built backhoe, and a 520-HC with cab and 2 stage blower. Plus numerous custom built like the one in my avatar pic..

 

Glad you found us. Drillgine drills can be a pain because everything needs to come apart just to get to something else. Not difficult but time consuming compared to most. You'll probably need a Diaphragm once tou get that check valve figured out

[Brian Lynch 19]

Whew!...Haven't tried anything yet so I'm still in the clear. I will go after it with some Simple Green or similar non destructive cleaner. Glad I found this site! ..I collect antique gas engines. You know, the old ones with the double flywheels.. I prefer oil field engines. Professionally, I've worked on everything from weed beaters to EMD locomotive engines. This little Drillgine has been an interesting project. I have 2 Wheel Horse tractors. A 1976 C-160 automatic with rear mounted tiller and a 1992 520-H with 2 stage snowthrower. I worked at dealer level and branch level for JD. I mow with a 1983 JD 318. Love that power steering..

[Wallfish 698]

It's not the end of the world if that check valve has to be drilled but certainly better if not. Plus it's a pain as the rubber material wants to close back up and restrict the drilled hole.

These little O&Rs can be challenging to work on and to get running properly but someone with your experience shouldn't have a problem. As worker tools, I think they suck and a bunch were probably smashed with a BFH by frustrated people. They make better display pieces.

 

That 318 is a great machine and a top shelf homeowner tractor

[factory 487]

20 hours ago, Brian Lynch said:

My question pertains to the brass object attached to the diaphragm chamber. Is this a fuel filter or a check valve? Can't get any fuel through it. It looks like someone either tried to remove it at one time or replaced it.

 

The only fuel filter should be in the gas tank, early engines had another fuel filter in the carb, which was found to clog so often that they removed it.

The first one of those check valves I came across was stuck too, all my usual cleaning methods failed, but several KW of ultrasonic cleaning* at work fixed it.

 

David

 

*Sadly the ultrasonic cleaner at work was removed a few years ago, as they wanted the space for other work.

[Fishnuts2 22]

I have one of these valves on my Orline saw project.  It was plugged up just like most I guess, so I put it in the ultrasonic cleaner for a long time with Simple Green in it.  It didn't change anything so I took a drill bit the same size as the inlet and drilled through it just using my fingers to twist the drill.

 

Upon close inspection it shows two piece construction, but in trying to get it apart the assembly pulled out of the diaphragm housing.  So I cleaned it the best I could and heated the diaphragm housing up to 150 degrees and pressed the brass housing back in place.

 

My carb has the rubber stop on the metering lever too, instead of the small ball valve.  I wonder if those were used in combination for certain applications.

[factory 487]

Both the rubber seal used on the carb diaphragm arm & the brass check valve are commonly found on later production engines, it has very little to do with the application (though one or two later tools did use different carbs).

 

David

[Brian Lynch 19]

Tried using Simple Green. It removed some debris but not all. Then on to vinegar. Nope, no results. Next was 2 psi of air pressure. Nope. Figured it was a lost cause. It got the drill. Back together and it's running. Started quite easily, maybe 6 pulls after pushing the primer button. Thanks to all for the help on this. My friend's eyes lit up when he saw it running. On to the next project...I think I've got a mid 60s vintage O&R around here somewhere...

[Wallfish 698]

Nice going Brian!

Glad it all worked out, let us know what you got if you find it.