I wonder if you could use heat shrink tubing to repair the old wire, either over top of the existing broken wire or maybe pull of the old brittle wire insulation and add heat shrink or something? I attempted a combo fix like this on an old Briggs motor that had wires that looked like the ones in your photo.
Ahh, that’s good to know ahead of time. I was able to find my deep sockets, now just need to verify it’ll fit the valve. That’s too bad the Snap-On socket didn’t work out, they make nice quality tools.
Thanks! I may look at countersinking the holes that mount to the rubber feet to give it a cleaner look. I’ve got some other ideas for stands as well and just haven’t had the time to make them. I’ll paint this one up and add some pics when it’s done.
Haaa, I hear you. Most of mine typically take a few weeks or longer sometimes. I’ll work on them for a hour here and there during the week, but it’s hard with kids and my job. This Type 227 engine was probably the fastest I’ve ever done one. Since it was mainly a clean up job it didn’t require too much interrogation. I still had to pull the flywheel and stuff to get to the points but I think I’ve gotten the hang of that process.
What are are you working on right now that you have on the bench? Post some pics, always fun to see what others are fixing up.
Wow, this is extremely helpful! Thank you for digging through the info, these service manual tips are best known ahead of time. I have some deep sockets but I’ll have to see if they fit. If not, I’ll probably buy a couple heaped sockets individually and grind the outer edge down to fit. I had to do this on a 3/8 socket once in order to remove a needle valve from the carberatur on my Kohler K241.
I have decided to set the Mark II aside for the moment. I do plan to take it apart at some point though to check everything. I am going to read up on it a bit more, since it will be the first 20A that I have worked on and they look to be a little more involved than the 13A or B engines. I want to know more about what I’m getting into before I’m committed
I’m really glad you mentioned the de-compression valve and the need for a proper socket. I’ll have to check to see if I have the right size.
Good point, forgot about the gear box being needed for a mini bike.
One other observation on this engine is the gas tank has a little aluminum button/cap on the side with the fuel filler that is usually another vent line. Is this clue helpful at all?
Cool! It’s funny just when you think you’ve seen all the applications for these engines you learn about something else. I would be curious to see a photo of your Mini Automatic.
Maybe this type 227 was used for mini bikes or something. I got it all cleaned up and it runs like a champ. I mocked up an idea for a display/test stand and added some really nice soft elastomer vibration dampening feet, it worked great. I think I’ll take some time now to paint the stand and make it look nice. I may also add a bracket off to the side to mount a small R/C fuel bottle so I have an easy fuel source for testing other engines that done have integral tanks.
So far so good. I got the points cleaned up, they definitely had a film of oxidation and gunk. These tanks are always a challenge to clean because you can’t see or access the fuel line and the pickup filter. I finally got it to where I can blow air through the fuel line so hopefully it’s clear enough to now suck fuel. Got everything else cleaned and ready to put back together. There must have been fuel mist or something mixed in with the dust, that stuff ended up being harder to clean off than I had anticipated. Hopefully today I can do the recoil spring and get it all back together. I’ll post some “after” photos.
My next quick project is a Type 227 engine. I’m not sure what this would have gone too but with this tank it seems like it would have possibly been a generator or pump or something (I’m sure David knows). Looks to be in pretty nice shape, it’s dirty but I don’t think it’s seen all that much run time. The tank is pretty clean inside and the piston and cylinder wall look nice. No real signs of carbonization in the exhaust collector. It also has the original nasty foam air filter and hard fuel lines. The pull rope looks practically new. I’m going to give it good external cleaning (including the recoil spring which is pretty gummed up and makes the retract a bit sticky), clean up and adjust the points and see if it will get spark and run.
I initially measured the shaft where the seal rides and it was 0.36. I found a U-cup seal that had an ID of 0.31 and OD of 1/2 and tried it and it’s extrmely tight because it gets additional compression when the shaft passes through. I was able to turn the shaft with it in place but it definitely has a lot of friction and takes some effort. I was also thinking that maybe it would loosen over time and after running the engine a bit. I’m really tempted to finish installing one on a spare test engine to see if it will work.
This morning I was poking around again hunting for seals and found a listing that referenced a metric U-cup seal that was 9mm ID x 13mm OD. Unfortunately I haven’t found a source that actually carries them yet. I think this could be a really close possibility if I can actually find a source.
I’m thinking the reed valves look in pretty good shape, at least they don’t appear to be worn, bent or otherwise damaged.
I think the compression release is working properIy, I push it in at initial start up and once it fires and sputters it seems the valve pops back out. If I go through the saw I’ll be sure to check it as well.
8 hours ago, HeadExam said:
You might look at this catalog, I haven't found any seal of any type that is .036 ID all are .031 or .040
Thanks for the link! Yes, that’s been the challenge. I found some 3/8 ID but they’re just ever so slightly too large. I’m still going to test them to see if when under some pressure they expand enough to create a seal but I’m doubtful because they’re too loose in a static state.
I want to take apart my Tiny Tiger to do a full clean up and inspection. It’s not obvious to me how to separate the generator body from the PTO side of the engine. I see two long screws that connect from the rear but I don’t see a seam on the generator body itself where it would split in order to access the screws that are inside the shroud that bolt it to the engine. Does anyone have photos of how the generator body comes apart?
If you can use a micrometer and give me the sizes of the seals and type/number of lips, I may be able to cross reference it to a stock seal.
HeadExam,
One of the seals that is hard to find is the induction shaft seal. The dimensions I get from a micrometer are 0.36” ID x 0.5” OD x 0.094 cross section and it’s a pretty simply U-cup shape.
Clint
Edit: Several posts replying about the 13A/13B shaft seals moved to new thread here:
On 7/15/2019 at 7:26 PM, factory said:
Is it difficult to start as well?
Here is what the service bulletin has for 'will not idle' (HeadExam has already mentioned most of them);
Edit:
Also found the service manual mentions blocked fuel tank vent, as a possible cause of only running for a short time.
Or there may be a cracked fuel line to the carb.
David
David,
It is a little hard to start at first but once it fires I can generally get it to fire again after a couple pulls between the 1-2 seconds it dies.
I poked a needle in the vent hole again this evening and was able to completely clear it. I then used a piece of fuel line and blew air into the fuel tank through the vent hole and the pressure exited through the hole so that appears to be working now. I think I’m going to tear the whole thing down and check the seals and fuel lines. I’m a little hesitant to go too far since the seals and gaskets aren’t available. I also don’t have replacement reed valves or any of the rubber gaskets that go between the reed valves and the case. This may end up on the shelf as a display piece only.
Thanks David! I will have to do some more sleuthing. I did find a glob of something on the fuel tank vent and was able to scrape it off and I stuck a needle into that tiny hole but that didnt change anything as far as running performance. I may need to do a more thorough cleaning of that vent hole. I haven’t gone through the saw to check all seals, gaskets and fuel lines so those are all definitely suspects.
I appreciate the service bulletin references, those are quite useful. Amazing that you have access to all that stuff!
You may have an air leak in the crankshaft seals, common issue on these old saws and why many get tossed, no seals available for many of these old saws. Air leaks in the carb or crank seals are often the cause of this issue. You can use a leak tester like the mity mite 8500 to determine whether you have a leak in the carb, by blocking the intake off with a plate and also making a plate with a stem to test crankcase pressure. I have diagrams on these testing plates if you need them. I also have a large database for new replacement seals by size and cross referenced to new part numbers.
HeadExam,
Thank you for the insights. That’s kind of what I was afraid of. I’ll have to look into the leak tester you referenced. Is that the same thing as the Mityvac 8500?
You also have me curious regarding replacement seals. I’ve recently been hunting and trialing various seal options for the Compact engines. Have you ever looked into shaft seal alternatives for the 13A and 13B engines? I found a source that had some small U-cup seals that were very close but not quite right. I’m still trying to determine if I can get them to work.
Clint
Edit: Several posts replying about the 13A/13B shaft seals moved to new thread here:
Comet c/saw
in Ohlsson and Rice
Posted
David,
thank you for adding the other photos, it’s neat to see the various generations of this saw.
Clint