Ohlsson & Rice Type 115

[CNew 404]

Hello All,

    I’m brand new to the forum and also new to the older Ohlsson & Rice engines. I’ve been working on various small engines including Briggs model size from the 1930s-50s so I’m in new territory here. I understand through some researching that there are some experts here in the forum and I’m hoping to get some advice. I recently acquired my first Ohlsson & Rice engine, actually still waiting for delivery. It’s a basic Type 115 engine and doesn’t have a gas tank or anything else. It’s also got a carburetor that looks a bit different from most that I’ve seen during my initial research. The top of the carb is completely flat with no spring loaded button on top or other holes on top. I’m anticipating it will need to be completely disassembled and cleaned and the diaphragm replaced. First question is does anyone here still make a replacement diaphragm or know of a suitable mateial I could purchase to make my own? Second question is, what is the recommended spark plug for these engines? Mine is coming without one and of course no other documentation to reference. I look forward to your expert opinions and to learning from all of you that are much more knowledgeable on these cool old engines.  I’ll try to post a couple photos after it arrives.

[factory 487]

From your description it sounds exactly the same as the Type 115 engine I have in my collection (pictures below), earlier style carb (no primer button), no tank, also no clue as to the original use.

 

Assuming it hasn't already been done, it will likely need a carb clean & rebuild, Webhead or Wallfish on here have new diaphragms for these, the original crumbly air filter foam should be removed/replaced too.

The original spark plug would have been a Champion UY6, if the cylinder has 10mm plug thread. Later engines used a 14mm thread spark plug.

 

David

 

[CNew 404]

Hello David,

   Thank you very much for the welcome and I really appreciate you sharing your expert advice.  The engine I will be receiving does indeed look like yours. The serial number is 030521 so pretty close to yours if I’m making it out correctly. I’ll post some pics once it arrives. What is the best way to connect with Webhead or Wallfish to discuss the diaphragms?  Thank you for the spark plug recommendation, I’ll start tracking that down as well.  I’m looking forward to getting into this thing.  I can tell I’m already hooked- there are so many cool applications of this engine!  

Thanks,

Clint

[factory 487]

Hi Clint

 

Yes the serial number is very close to mine (030594), I have saved pictures of a few more Type 115 engines and where visible the numbers are within a couple of hundred of mine, so they must have made a batch of them at the same time.

 

To contact Wallfish or Webhead use the letter symbol at the top of the page to send a personal message.

 

You maybe interested in reading the NIAE test report (featuring 3 engines of similar age) that can be found on the linked thread;

 

 

David

[CNew 404]

Hello David,

   Thank you, I think I need to read that NIAE report a couple more times. Am I to understand that these earlier models may not be as well constructed and potentially prone to premature wear or failure?  I appreciate your connecting me with Webhead and Wallfish as well. I will be in touch with Webhead shortly to pursue the diaphragms. I was also able to find a couple Champion UY6 plugs and have them on order.

 

Thanks,

Clint

[CNew 404]

Also, regarding the fuel mixture - is there a consensus on if it’s best to use a TruFuel type product that is engineered without the high ethanol % content, etc. of common pump gasoline?  I’ve found individual cans of high octane (92-93) at the hardware store that are free of ethanol and I was wondering if this might be a good route to go for mixing with the SAE 30 oil. Most of the 2-cycle weed-wacker and chainsaw premixed fuels around my area tend to be 50:1 ratio. I don’t plan to run this engine much, just occasional use to show it off kind of thing so I don’t mind spending a bit more to get a good quality fuel that will prolong life and integrity of the engine. One of these days I would like to find a Drillgen or a small outboard boat motor powered by one of these engines. The Tiny Tiger generators are pretty neat too but tend to be pretty pricey. I saw a post somewhere on here where someone has an entire shed filled with a collection of tools, very impressive and a beautiful collection!

[factory 487]

In the summary I posted, O&R considered the continuous 100 hour test inappropriate for this engine, the main problem with the early engines were the die-cast gears failing (which are not used on your engine). They continued making changes long after the NIAE test too.

 

David

[factory 487]

I did hear in the news a few months ago that they were considering increasing the ethanol content in fuel over here in the UK, they mentioned it can ruin the seals in old engines and would likely shorten the life of older cars etc.

People seem to have different opinions on the type of oil to use, all I know is that modern SAE30 is likely to have harmful additives, see the most recent fuel/mix thread for more info (the OP never did update it with how they got on with the oils they ordered) link below.

 

https://myoldmachine.com/topic/4425-best-fuels-mix-for-tiny-tiger/

 

On 7/1/2018 at 7:18 PM, factory said:

Forum recommendation for fuel/oil mix ratio;

We have been recommending a 32:1 fuel/oil mix on the forum for using modern 2-stroke oils, I have been using a high quality mineral based 2-stroke oil from Stihl, another forum user had problems with the synthetic version of 2-stroke oil from Stihl, see this thread; 

 

I only run mine for short periods and make a fresh fuel mix each time.

 

53 minutes ago, CNew said:

One of these days I would like to find a Drillgen or a small outboard boat motor powered by one of these engines. The Tiny Tiger generators are pretty neat too but tend to be pretty pricey.

 

Be patient & keep searching regularly as the prices vary a lot, also there is someone who keeps buying some of cheap O&R's in the US and then lists them at much higher prices (as well a mixing the parts up, repainting engines that looked in perfectly good original condition & sometimes putting the wrong HP decals on and worst of all has parted out some complete tools & bike kits).

 

Note that the Tiny Tiger was one of the most popular O&R powered products, so you shouldn't have a problem finding one at a more reasonable price, the only exceptions being the less common version with the larger tank and the early & very rare DC only version.

 

David

[CNew 404]

David,

   Thank you for all the advice on the oil/fuel. I’ve started reading through older threads you listed. Like you I think I’d like to make very small batches at a time. I have access to a local hardware store that carries Stihl brand chainsaws and they should have the 2-stroke oils that were mentioned. Most of the service station gasoline here has 10-15% ethanol so I plan to stay away from this stuff. I found one station that has what they call “non-oxy” fuel that is supposed to have much less or no thanks and is for use in small engines, boat engines, etc. and I use it my lawn equipment. But for the O&R I will stick to the recommendations here from the experts here. Do you do the 32:1 ratio with a modern 2-stroke oil?

 

Clint

[CNew 404]

The engine arrived this afternoon, earlier than expected. After a quick look over I’m starting Tom thing this engine has been used very little, if at all. It looks to be all there. The governed system is interesting. Wish I had a gas tank for it... here are some photos, enjoy.

 

Clint

[factory 487]

Yes I use 32:1 ratio for my O&R's and other vintage 2 stroke engines. If you do buy the Stihl oil make sure it's the mineral version (red color).

 

David

[factory 487]

21 minutes ago, CNew said:

The engine arrived this afternoon, earlier than expected. After a quick look over I’m starting Tom thing this engine has been used very little, if at all. It looks to be all there. The governed system is interesting. Wish I had a gas tank for it... here are some photos, enjoy.

 

Clint 

 

Looks very clean & in nice original condition, the gas tanks are hard to find, but do appear occasionally (note that not all engines were supplied with one either when new).

 

David

 

PS. Don't forget to clean all the old foam out of the air filter.

[CNew 404]

Thanks!  It does appear that the air filter is pretty much disintegrated, not much left. What do you normally use to replace it, some new foam air filter from a modern engine cut down to size?  I also just noticed that this engine has some sort of adapter where the spark plug threads into the head. I was able to unscrew it and remove it. It had a very small hole threaded into the center, could this have been for using a glow plug or something?  With the plug out it actually looks like this engine may have never been run.

 

Clint

[Webhead 95]

You can buy any foam filter material and cut it down to size. You will then need to stuff it through the mounting hole and I use a toothpick to even it out inside the housing.

[CNew 404]

Interesting, after a little researching it doesn’t appear Stihl sells the standard HP (red) oil here in the USA. All I’m seeing is their HP synthetic version. Is Amsoil a possible good alternative?

[factory 487]

23 hours ago, CNew said:

Thanks!  It does appear that the air filter is pretty much disintegrated, not much left. What do you normally use to replace it, some new foam air filter from a modern engine cut down to size?  I also just noticed that this engine has some sort of adapter where the spark plug threads into the head. I was able to unscrew it and remove it. It had a very small hole threaded into the center, could this have been for using a glow plug or something?

 

Yes you can cut out a new filter from any suitable modern foam air filter material as Webhead said, I got some from my local garden machinery repair shop.

 

 

The adaptor is indeed for a glow plug, I wonder why they didn't remove the magneto coil? Possibly they never completed the RC project it was bought for.

 

David

[factory 487]

3 hours ago, CNew said:

Interesting, after a little researching it doesn’t appear Stihl sells the standard HP (red) oil here in the USA. All I’m seeing is their HP synthetic version. Is Amsoil a possible good alternative?

 

From what I can find out, Amsoil seem to only make synthetic oils.

 

Also it looks like Stihl package their oils differently in the US, it looks like it might be the orange bottle "High Performance" version (but why do they not mention mineral anywhere on the bottle or the website? ).

https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/oils-and-lubricants/oilhp/

 

David

[CNew 404]

Thanks David! The photos of the foam are helpful. I agree, the glowplug adapter is interesting. I’ve got it out now and will go with a normal spark plug.  I may stop at the local hardware store again that sells Stihl and see if there is anyone there that might have some insight on the oil composition. Since Stihl doesn’t say anything on the official website I’m thinking it may be a hard fact to uncover.

 

clint

[Webhead 95]

US Stihl at 32:1 works just fine.

[CNew 404]

Thanks Webhead and Factory, I really appreciate your expertise and insight. I will give the Stihl oil a try. Do you think there is any value in getting the Stihl fuel premix (50:1) and adding additional oil to bring it to 32:1? Seems like the fuel they use would be better quality than service station gas that has high ethanol%. I dont know if Stihl also puts other additives in their premix that might be harmful to these older engine seals and other plastic or rubber parts.  Thanks- Clint

[factory 487]

It seems the Stihl 'MotoMix' premix is made with the 'HP Ultra' oil, aka the synthetic version.

 

Where do people with classic cars/motor bikes get low ethanol fuel from in your area? Looks like the premium fuels in the UK are more likely to be ethanol free, but this is not guaranteed and the petrol station staff/owners may not know either.

Interestingly one website I looked on the other day mentioned that Brazil has been mixing ethanol into fuel for around 40 years, from this article here;

https://armchairbiker.com/ethanol-in-petrol-what-classic-bikers-need-to-know/

Also I remember watching a youtube video where they mentioned that because the regulations had changed, the fuel available (in LA) now has a lower boiling point and they had to remove the side cover from a vintage Honda generator to prevent vapour lock (something I had never heard of before seeing that), not sure if it has anything to do with ethanol (but the article linked above also mentioned vapour lock as a problem in hot conditions).

 

David

Edited December 11, 2018 by factory
edit, rewatched video

[CNew 404]

Most of the regular fuel on my area is 10-15% ethanol. I did find one station that sells “non-oxy” which they advertise as for small engines and supposed to have less or no ethanol but they don’t give much details. 

[factory 487]

This site looks very useful for finding ethanol free fuel in the US & Canada;

https://www.pure-gas.org/

 

I noticed there was no labelling (E no.) on the pumps at the nearest station to my work in the UK.

 

David