Ohlsson & Rice: how old is it?

[CNew 404]

Ok, got this really cool engine and I know it’s an early one. Might need David’s insights for this one. There aren’t any markings on it as far as I can tell, no model or serial numbers.  This is as-received and I haven’t touched it yet but looking forward to giving it a bath.  Unfortunately the engine and the gear box are both sieved up. I pulled the plug and the top of the piston looks surprisingly clean.  Missing the air cleaner. Has a push-pull throttle cable and a little pulley (probably an add-on).  I have no idea of the application, maybe a compressor or something.  This is definitely the oldest O&R in my collection now.

[Wallfish 698]

That's old school. You can tell by the clear wood handle and those coils are black, not green. The plug cap doesn't belong since that's how you stop the engine by grounding out the spark plug. You'll get a good jolt removing that cap while it's running. Think I have 3 of those so maybe time to do some comparison. Nice score with the old gearbox, one of mine has the the straight shaft with a clutch. Look up the model with the gearbox in the manual section. David posted all kinds of good stuff in there

[CNew 404]

The condenser is also different from all the other O&Rs I’ve got. Not sure if it was replaced by an incorrect part at some point along the way.  Really hoping I can get the engine free.

[Wallfish 698]

First check the gearbox as that may be why it won't move because of hardened grease. If it's the engine, Pour or spray some oil in the spark plug hole, let it sit in there for a day or two and use your hand to turn the flywheel. Go back and forth in very short turns and it should free up if locked because of sitting.

Bet that thing has been sitting in a box since the early 60s like someone started a project but never finished. They probably had a hard time starting it without a primer and the tank below the carb.

The condensers on the early engines were shorter and fatter so it's probably original.

That throttle cable was a factory option and cost a whopping $1. You can see a very short one was used on the Bejay winch which has that same knob. No need to find any of that conduit now since you now have a 3ft supply.

[JUST O&R 237]

Nice unit must be very early all the screws are flat head  and the come in from the back of the recoil.

the muffler bolt is long enough to put on one more section . there's no model or serial ? 

David said my c/saw was 1961 and it had all flat head screws.

Looks very clean no painting

[factory 487]

Very nice, I have a couple of these with no serial number, but none have a gearbox, or the throttle cable option.

I have a letter that mentions the Model A.B, & C engines & the gearbox models would be available soon, will check for a date later.

These engines don't have the O&R bird decal on the starter, the starter also doesn't have the oil hole or decal indicating this.

 

The spark-plug cap was an optional accessory, probably best put on another engine as this has the early stop switch.

It might not have a hole for an air cleaner, not all the very early engines do.

And yes the condenser looks original to this engine.

 

One of mine was stuck from dried oil in the bearings of the induction section.

 

David

Edited April 5, 2020 by factory
More info

[Wallfish 698]

Found serial numbers on 2 of mine. 0001276 and 0001826

 

That long muffler stuff was another option. The bolt and the sections

[factory 487]

These date from sometime between August 1960 to 1961, gearbox models were not available in August 1960, but were due to go into production soon.

 

Here are some pictures from the first brochure, which show the features of these early engines.

 

 

David

[factory 487]

39 minutes ago, Wallfish said:

Found serial numbers on 2 of mine. 0001276 and 0001826

 

That long muffler stuff was another option. The bolt and the sections

 

The full range of accessories available in August 1961, including four different lengths of muffler screw, plus remote mufflers & extension tube (has anyone got an early remote muffler & extension tube?).

 

David

[Wallfish 698]

David, do you know the difference between the odd and even muffler sections?

Always assumed they were all the same, just stacked

[factory 487]

Without looking at one I would say that the odd & even sections have the holes in different places, I'm certain they changed to a more standard design the later engines.

 

Edit: 122-4 & 122-5 muffler sections are gone from the 1962 parts diagram, it states to use 122-3 for all additional sections, as does the 1971 master price list.

 

David

Edited April 5, 2020 by factory

[factory 487]

1 hour ago, JUST O&R said:

there's no model or serial ? 

Yes some of these early engines do not have a serial number, or the bird decal where the model no. is printed, and I have a parts list that mentions the lack of serial numbers (not scanned in yet).

 

1 hour ago, JUST O&R said:

Looks very clean no painting

Please do not paint this nice early engine, I know a lot of you like repainting your engines.

Also note that these early engines use some completely different seals/gaskets, sadly I haven't found a kit to copy the sizes from yet.

 

David

[CNew 404]

2 hours ago, Wallfish said:

First check the gearbox as that may be why it won't move because of hardened grease. If it's the engine, Pour or spray some oil in the spark plug hole, let it sit in there for a day or two and use your hand to turn the flywheel. Go back and forth in very short turns and it should free up if locked because of sitting.

 

Thanks Wallfish- this is exactly the plan. I put a few drops of Kroil into the cylinder yesterday just to give it a head start. I’m hoping it’s just dried grease in the gear box and nothing more serious somewhere inside.

2 hours ago, factory said:

These engines don't have the O&R bird decal on the starter, the starter also doesn't have the oil hole or decal indicating this.

It might not have a hole for an air cleaner, not all the very early engines do.

And yes the condenser looks original to this engine.

 

Thanks David - this is really helpful, glad the condenser looks correct as well.  I’ll double check but I think it has the hole for the little air cleaner screw.

1 hour ago, factory said:

The full range of accessories available in August 1961

 

Amazing the prices on these original options. As part of this engine purchase I also got a NOS A-32-4 tank, it’s definitely an early version and looks to be identical to the one this engine is sitting on.  Now you can’t even find throttle cables that small diameter (trust me I’ve been on the hunt...).  

 

After a bit of searching recently I found a good source for some flexible muffler extension tubing. I have plans to set up an engine with a remote muffler but it’s not original. The flex tubing would also work well for the Aquabug if someone needed to fix or replace that piece.

[CNew 404]

33 minutes ago, factory said:

Please do not paint this nice early engine, I know a lot of you like repainting your engines.

 

Well, there goes my plan for a fresh hot metallic pink with some unicorn air brushing...  Yep - no plans to paint this beauty. I just want to clean it up and hopefully free the engine. I prefer keeping these things as original as possible and only restoring ones where the paint is too far gone. Depending on how the guts look I probably won’t even try starting it - it’ll be a shelf piece for sure.

[CNew 404]

3 hours ago, Wallfish said:

That throttle cable was a factory option and cost a whopping $1. You can see a very short one was used on the Bejay winch which has that same knob.

 

For display purposes I do like the idea of the short throttle cable like you have on the Bejay.  That would certainly free up some cable...

[factory 487]

Coil it up as shown in the brochure & tie it up if needed, no point in possibly damaging it trying to shorten it, there must be loads of small sized Bowden cable out there if you want to make a shorter throttle cable up.

 

David

[CNew 404]

David,

   I don’t plan to modify this cable. I’m open to recommendations on a source for cable this size.  I’ve contacted probably a dozen specialty cable suppliers and they’ve all said there isn’t anything this small. I’ve looked at Bowden cables, bicycle cables, aircraft instrument cables, vintage automotive heater and vent control cables, clutch, brake, push-pull, latch release and other similar cables.  The closest I’ve found so far is a very specific brand of vintage wiper motor cable that Looks to be very close to the right size but the inner core cable is solid wire and not the typical braided wire used in most of the O&R cables.  Do you know of a source?

[Wallfish 698]

47 minutes ago, factory said:

there must be loads of small sized Bowden cable out there if you want to make a shorter throttle cable up.

If there is could you please point us to it?

And if there is or not, I'm not so sure there's much value in keeping it whole (other than sentimental) or even close to as much as repairing 4-5 other tools with the correct conduit

 

 

[JUST O&R 237]

4 hours ago, CNew said:

Well, there goes my plan for a fresh hot metallic pink with some unicorn air brushing...

Maybe You could to that on one of your chicken powers and put it o a girls bike that might look good .

That engine looks really good just a good going throw and she will be great.

[Wallfish 698]

Old Chicken Powers are a good source for longer conduits too.

[CNew 404]

Made a little progress on this just now. Juggling between some paint work and fabricating a display stand for the cut-away engine.

 

Good news, I was able to free the piston. It’s still a little snug but I think it’s free enough that when I go to remove the cylinder head it shouldn’t snap the con rod (hopefully). Although the gear box was pretty much empty and stuck I was able to get it free. The clutch has the little cork pads and they hand seized up in the clutch housing.  I was surprised to see the plastic gear.  The recoil was also jammed up but I got that moving too. SO overall the vitals seem good. I’m actually starting to think this one may not have much mileage on it. 

 

! Before I go and do something stupid I wanted to check in with the experts to see if the flywheel nut on the older models are normal thread or if by chance they might be reverse thread!

 

These older models definitely look different inside, pretty cool (for me) since this is the first one like this I’ve had and opened up.

 

[Wallfish 698]

That's good news!

Been a long time since I've opened up an oldie but pretty sure the crank threads are normal.

I probably have a metal gear for a replacement if you want it but doubt you're going to be working that thing anyway.

Those old school cork lining clutches never actually clutch much anyway. Sanding the edges of the cork like shown in the engine rebuild pics helps a lot. But again, doubt you're going to be using it but do it if your running a tool with one of those.

7 hours ago, CNew said:

The closest I’ve found so far is a very specific brand of vintage wiper motor cable that Looks to be very close to the right size but the inner core cable is solid wire and not the typical braided wire used in most of the O&R cables.

The inner wire isn't a problem. Picture hanging wire can be used or numerous other things. It's the conduit which is the problem so far so if you found something... Whatchya got?

[CNew 404]

Yeah, at most I may try to start it but I don’t have any plans to really run this one.  Good to know about the clutch linings, I had forgotten about that.

 

I’m waiting to hear from someone on ePay to confirm the dimensions on the wiper motor cable. If it’s comes back close I may get one to take a closer look at it.

[CNew 404]

I finally got the entire engine dismantled. Some interesting observations (at least to me anyway):

• the engineering on these early engines is exquisite, noticeably different from the later versions
• this one has metal roller bearings throughout, and some of the cages look to be bronze, very nice
• piston has 3 large rings
• no rubber seals anywhere and no gaskets inside- all the machining seems to be really tighten tolerance (no feather vane gaskets and no little rubber induction case seals. The only thing that resembled a seal is some thin black coating stuff that looked like a thin layer of gasket maker where the feather vane gasket would normally go
• connecting rod uses a pretty cool two-piece roller bearing that is made of aluminum
• the points are a little different too and have a slotted piece that catches the copper tab

It’s starting to clean up nicely. I can tell by the piston, cylinder and the internals that this thing hasn’t been run much, zero carbonization or anything, just a light coating of dried oil/gas varnish. I’m pretty certain I’m the first one to open this one up, didn’t see any signs of others getting into it.

[JUST O&R 237]

Never  seen one with 3 rings that's cool nice project that will be a nice one for the shelf