Just Finished Another Old Engine (Pincor)

[bowtiebutler956 166]

Hello all. I just finished up another refurbish on an old engine. This engine is badged Pincor, but was manufactured by Briggs. These were used on Pincor reel mowers, and had a large 2 speed gear box mounted to the engine. While Pincor did make their own engine, its thought that later in production they used a few of these briggs engine. I got this engine a couple years ago, but it was damaged badly in shipping due to the previous owner doing a terrible job of packaging it, before sending it to me.   It made me so mad, I put it on the shelf, and didn't touch it for the last couple years. The first couple pics below, are the pics of what I supposed to be getting, but trust me, thats not what it looked like when it got to me. The shroud was smashed, a corner of the head was broke, the oil bath filter was missing, and it was just generally beat up from bouncing around inside of a box for 1000 miles. I finally got over it, and gave it the attention it needed. I replaced the missing, or badly broken parts. I then spent some time doing body work on the sheet metal to get it straitened out. The engine got a fresh set of rings, valve job, gaskets, and seals. It runs great now, and looks pretty nice as well. Here is a video, and a few pics. 

 

Matt

 

[meadowfield 1,900]

Nice work, love the attention to detail and work you do

[bowtiebutler956 166]

Nice work, love the attention to detail and work you do

 Thanks Mark, I take that as a great compliment coming from you. You do amazing work. 

 

Matt

[Wristpin 400]

Great restoration and pictures . Prompts me to ask what is the history of the use of the Briggs design by the UK's Suffolk Iron Foundary for their 75 and 98 cc cast iron block engines. Was it a licensing agreement or did SIF buy the rights to redundant designs when Briggs moved on to alloy blocks for the smaller capacity engines.

I'm not an engine collector as such but the attached images are of some SIF lumps ready to go onto my small collection of " working classics".

Edited July 5, 2015 by Wristpin

[HeadExam 1,783]

Beautiful job on the Pincor, I don't know how you guys find these old engines. Happy to see someone saving them though. BTW, strange question, what is the ground cover you have growing there in the garden?

[bowtiebutler956 166]

Great restoration and pictures . Prompts me to ask what is the history of the use of the Briggs design by the UK's Suffolk Iron Foundary for their 75 and 98 cc cast iron block engines. Was it a licensing agreement or did SIF buy the rights to redundant designs when Briggs moved on to alloy blocks for the smaller capacity engines.

I'm not an engine collector as such but the attached images are of some SIF lumps ready to go onto my small collection of " working classics".image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

 I really appreciate those pictures!   If you could do me a favor, and post a picture of the PTO side of one of these engines, I would appreciate that as well.   The first time I ever saw one of those engines was here on MOM, not long after I joined. I knew as soon as I saw it, it was derived from the old Briggs cast iron 5, and 6 cu in. engines. I don't know what kind of a deal Suffolk had with Briggs, but it was great to see this design continued in use after Briggs stop making them. Do you know what years these were in production for? I like the way Suffolk added a oil dipstick to the design, and they certainly have a completely different design carburetor. I would love to get my hands on one of those engines, but I don't believe any of those made it over here. 

Once again, I really appreciate your post, and I look forward to seeing more pics.

 

Matt

[bowtiebutler956 166]

Beautiful job on the Pincor, I don't know how you guys find these old engines. Happy to see someone saving them though. BTW, strange question, what is the ground cover you have growing there in the garden?

 

 Thanks, and they're really not to hard to find. Thats not my garden, its just the area behind my shop. I don't know what that is but, its indigenous to this area, and grows everywhere. While we're not in a drought right now, most years we are, and when all the grass dies, this stuff continues living. 

 

Matt

[HeadExam 1,783]

 Thanks, and they're really not to hard to find. Thats not my garden, its just the area behind my shop. I don't know what that is but, its indigenous to this area, and grows everywhere. While we're not in a drought right now, most years we are, and when all the grass dies, this stuff continues living. 

 

Matt

I said garden, but meant yard, i think a yard is a garden over in England, in Oklahoma and Texas a yard is where you park your boat , truck, camper, 4 wheelers and grill

[C-101plowerpower 548]

I really appreciate those pictures!   If you could do me a favor, and post a picture of the PTO side of one of these engines, I would appreciate that as well.   The first time I ever saw one of those engines was here on MOM, not long after I joined. I knew as soon as I saw it, it was derived from the old Briggs cast iron 5, and 6 cu in. engines. I don't know what kind of a deal Suffolk had with Briggs, but it was great to see this design continued in use after Briggs stop making them. Do you know what years these were in production for? I like the way Suffolk added a oil dipstick to the design, and they certainly have a completely different design carburetor. I would love to get my hands on one of those engines, but I don't believe any of those made it over here. 

Once again, I really appreciate your post, and I look forward to seeing more pics.

 

Matt

Want one? I believe i have a spare one in bits somewhere, oh and the 75g14 engines are the same size as a briggs 5s. There's a guy on YouTube that compared them and some parts were interchangable

[bowtiebutler956 166]

Want one? I believe i have a spare one in bits somewhere, oh and the 75g14 engines are the same size as a briggs 5s. There's a guy on YouTube that compared them and some parts were interchangable

 

 I would love to have one! However, I'm a bit unsure how high the price would be to ship one all the way over here to the US. Do you have any experience with this? Thanks

 I tried searching for that YouTube video, but haven't been able to find it yet.

Matt

[C-101plowerpower 548]

here ya go on the cross breeding part

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lso_A9d0iA0

 

and the outcome

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnchoY3Vnzw

 

and about the sending bit, i think i can work it out

[Wristpin 400]

I really appreciate those pictures! If you could do me a favor, and post a picture of the PTO side of one of these engines, I would appreciate that as well. The first time I ever saw one of those engines was here on MOM, not long after I joined. I knew as soon as I saw it, it was derived from the old Briggs cast iron 5, and 6 cu in. engines. I don't know what kind of a deal Suffolk had with Briggs, but it was great to see this design continued in use after Briggs stop making them. Do you know what years these were in production for? I like the way Suffolk added a oil dipstick to the design, and they certainly have a completely different design carburetor. I would love to get my hands on one of those engines, but I don't believe any of those made it over here.

Once again, I really appreciate your post, and I look forward to seeing more pics.

Matt

As requested some more images - the PTO side and the UK made Zenith up draught carburettor.

Sorry about the orientation of two of the images, the iPad seems to have a mind of its own for images taken in portrait !

Edited July 6, 2015 by Wristpin

[C-101plowerpower 548]

Wristpin, did you know that there are at least two different versions of the 75cc engines? one having an aluminium flywheel, different taper for the flywheel, different ignition and a different inlet.

[bowtiebutler956 166]

here ya go on the cross breeding part

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lso_A9d0iA0

 

and the outcome

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnchoY3Vnzw

 

and about the sending bit, i think i can work it out

 Thanks for those videos. That was really neat, but I will say this, he knows his Briggs engines about as well as I know my Suffolk (not very well)  . The Briggs he was using was actually an early 40's Briggs WI. Let me know what you find on shipping, and I'm sure we could work things out. I don't know anyone with a Suffolk here in the States, and I would love to add one to my collection!   I sure appreciate your help.

 

Matt

[C-101plowerpower 548]

 Thanks for those videos. That was really neat, but I will say this, he knows his Briggs engines about as well as I know my Suffolk (not very well)  . The Briggs he was using was actually an early 40's Briggs WI. Let me know what you find on shipping, and I'm sure we could work things out. I don't know anyone with a Suffolk here in the States, and I would love to add one to my collection!   I sure appreciate your help.

 

Matt

 

just went and looked at the shipping part, ho ly crap, sending a package that weighs in round about 15KG costs about 105 euros or 108 dollars  i can ask a friend that does some shipping of tractors from and to the states if i can put it in one of them, but it wil arive in east indiana

[bowtiebutler956 166]

As requested some more images - the PTO side and the UK made Zenith up draught carburettor.

Sorry about the orientation of two of the images, the iPad seems to have a mind of its own for images taken in portrait !

 

 Thanks once again Wristpin! It really is amazing how close these engines are to the old Briggs. However, I think they may have made just enough changes that they didn't need Briggs's permission to build those engines. Thanks Again. 

 

Matt

just went and looked at the shipping part, ho ly crap, sending a package that weighs in round about 15KG costs about 105 euros or 108 dollars  i can ask a friend that does some shipping of tractors from and to the states if i can put it in one of them, but it wil arive in east indiana

 I'll send you a PM here shortly.

 

Matt

[Wristpin 400]

Wristpin, did you know that there are at least two different versions of the 75cc engines? one having an aluminium flywheel, different taper for the flywheel, different ignition and a different inlet.

Yes, I think that " at least" is the operative word as over the years I've fallen foul of several variations when trying to dig out of various problems by mixing and matching! Flywheels, crank tapers, magneto back plates and manifolds have all featured. Back in the 80s we were stocking three different governor links and even a small hinged governor vane different from either of the ones in my post and I'd totally forgotten about that variation. Also there were different crankshaft oil dippers to go with the various depths of sump. I recolect that the dippers had a single digit ID number stamped into them.

I'm surprised at the suggestion that SIF could have blatantly copied the BS design with out some sort of legal arrangement as patent legislation etc goes a lot further back than the 1940s..

[C-101plowerpower 548]

Yes, I think that " at least" is the operative word as over the years I've fallen foul of several variations when trying to dig out of various problems by mixing and matching! Flywheels, crank tapers, magneto back plates and manifolds have all featured. Back in the 80s we were stocking three different governor links and even a small hinged governor vane different from either of the ones in my post and I'd totally forgotten about that variation. Also there were different crankshaft oil dippers to go with the various depths of sump. I recolect that the dippers had a single digit ID number stamped into them.

I'm surprised at the suggestion that SIF could have blatantly copied the BS design with out some sort of legal arrangement as patent legislation etc goes a lot further back than the 1940s..

 

the different sumps i knew about but the rest, no didn't know there were that much variations. learned something new, thanks Wristpin

[bowtiebutler956 166]

I'm surprised at the suggestion that SIF could have blatantly copied the BS design with out some sort of legal arrangement as patent legislation etc goes a lot further back than the 1940s..

 

 I could very well be mistaken. There was an engine made by Cunningham here in the states back in the late 40's that was a near identical copy of the Briggs engines. The models were the Cunningham EA, and EB. From what I've been told (but I don't know for sure), Briggs sued Cunningham, and won, but those engines really were identical, with the exception of having a deeper shroud, and different fuel tank, and carburetor on one of the models. I'll try to dig up some pictures for you guys. Thanks

 

Matt

[Ian 2,417]

Another great restoration Matt     I have to ask... What is it about these small engines that makes you want to collect and restore them?  You certainly seem to like them

[bowtiebutler956 166]

Another great restoration Matt     I have to ask... What is it about these small engines that makes you want to collect and restore them?  You certainly seem to like them

 

 Yes, I do like them Ian.   I've always loved engines Ian, and thy're always my favorite part of any restoration project, whether its my Wheel Horse's, Case, or even my work truck. So, it just made sense to me to start doing just engines. That way, I'm always working on my favorite part of the restoration!     That, and these old engine don't empty my wallet as quickly as some projects. 

 

Matt

[Ian 2,417]

I'm the other way Matt, I like bolting engine into things but I don't like working on engines.