This Kohler beyond repair?

[Westie1 29]

Just had a look at this 14hp k321 and looks like the rod had snapped and damaged the crank. The bearing plate it spinning but im not sure if its from damage or being removed. Everything else inside looks ok to my very untrained eye.

[Stormin 4,458]

Can't really tell the condition of the crank from the photo. Is it badly scored? If lightly mark it may polish up.

[Westie1 29]

Its safe to say it needs stripping isn't it? I've seen some videos on YouTube on how to do it. I could get some better pictures then and take it from there. I think it's quite badly scored though and on the left you can see it's worn down the "shoulder"

[Wristpin 400]

perhaps you should be asking why the rod snapped? Usual cause is lube failure of the big end but the apparent condition of the crank pin doesn't support that. Next comes over-speeding.. Any sign of governor issues and are the balancer gears correctly timed? 

[Westie1 29]

I'm afraid I can't answer any of that as I'm veeeery new to all this and it would be my first foray into engines other than bits and bobs up top. 

I don't know it's history as it came to me with a tractor yesterday and was opened by the previous owner and broken bits removed. 

He couldn't give me any information on what had happened.

Not very helpful I'm afraid

[Wristpin 400]

Perhaps you need to find someone with a bit of experience with Kohler engines to give you some guidance and practical help.

Most engine manufacturers publish Engine Failure Analysis guides to talk one through the forensic examination of failed engines but they tend to be aimed at dealers.

Found this on Amazon but it's in the US

https://www.amazon.com/Kohler-Engines-Failure-Analysis-Guidebook/dp/B003M1TIVG

[Westie1 29]

Thanks I think your right, it's possibly one for the future. I think I might just leave it for now I've got the k341 and the whole tractor to worry about first. I was thinking about selling it as parts but I'll sit on it.

[HeadExam 1,783]

Rods like pistons are sold in off sizes, over sized for pistons and undersized for rods. That way if you have to remove material off the crank you can still purchase a rod for it.

[Westie1 29]

What about from the other end of the crank? Can the "counter weights" be skimmed to remove scores/gouges?

Looking at the picture it appears its broken off the bottom of the cylinder on the left

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

There is nothing in consideration of that engine's condition that is not repairable, or affect the engine in use when repaired. It can be fully rebuilt to a good running condition.

What will affect that reconditioning is how much you consider is worth spending, how comfortable you feel about doing most of the (dis/assembly) work and if you have the time, tools and facilities.

It's not uncommon for rods to fail, difficult to point to the cause(s), other than fatigue, poor maintenance or assembly.

That is a 'lucky' failure. I've seen holes punched through the crank case just above the starter high mount position, another with a large chunk of lower cylinder broken off (still running).

From the pics, I can't see any condition of the Crank that will not be remedied by inspection, measurement and a possible regrind to 0.010" under, with an appropriate replacement Con Rod.

Acceptable 'wear limit' (Kohler's) on the Crank journal is 0.0005" (five ten thousandths of an inch, or half-a-thou ). Which gives you an idea of the fine tolerances required for a long life engine.

Whatever you do, don't scrap it, someone will want to fix it up. 

 

 

 

 

[Westie1 29]

Thanks armed with a video or 2 I feel comfortable taking it apart as it needs a proper going over and all the swarf removing. 

I was worried about the crank as they are hard to come by ECT but if repairable great.

I thought I would need to sell it as parts to recoup the tractors purchase price but as the deck alone has almost covered that! I will be putting this engine aside, restore the c141 as a c141 (fitted with a 16hp) then restore the 14hp at a later date and keep it with the tractor. Too few about to get shut for a few quid it seems.

Thanks for the clarity I just didn't want to be sat on scrap If it's beyond economical repair and only good as parts.

[squonk 71]

Those rods develop cracks all the time. I've seen rods that look nice look not so nice after magnaflux or dye penetrant. Looks like it broke right where the rod starts getting big

[Westie1 29]

It will spend a good while placed to one side, maybe in a few years I will get stuck into it 👍

[AKAMick 0]

This is a good resource for Kohlers http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/engine.htm

[HeadExam 1,783]

15 hours ago, AKAMick said:

This is a good resource for Kohlers http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/engine.htm

I wouldnt do business with a twice convicted child molester, but others can do what the wish. Its been a matter of public record for almost a decade.

https://www.homefacts.com/offender-detail/MO53885899/Brian-Keith-Miller.html

[AKAMick 0]

On 1/26/2019 at 11:46 AM, HeadExam said:

I wouldnt do business with a twice convicted child molester, but others can do what the wish. Its been a matter of public record for almost a decade.

https://www.homefacts.com/offender-detail/MO53885899/Brian-Keith-Miller.html

Was not aware of this,  as i was just interested in the Kohler engines,

[Wristpin 400]

2 hours ago, AKAMick said:

Was not aware of this,  as i was just interested in the Kohler engines,

Looking at your Gallery images, a bit of nostalgia there with the Ariens rear engined riders . We used to sell them as well as the YTs and GTs back in the 1980s . Not without their problems, the Tecumseh engines used to tear themselves out of the chassis and the Briggs engined ones had the cylinder head right up against the seat pedestal where the cooling fins used to bung up with grass, overheat and blow the head gaskets. On both the RMs and YTs the single 32” blade used to somehow manage to jump the “ high performance deck flange” and cause a certain amount of mayhem . Happy days!!

[Wristpin 400]

On 11/11/2018 at 3:20 PM, Westie1 said:

Just had a look at this 14hp k321 and looks like the rod had snapped and damaged the crank. The bearing plate it spinning but im not sure if its from damage or being removed. Everything else inside looks ok to my very untrained eye.

 

 

Meetens were always a good source of Kohler information and assistance and there was s chap who used to post on this and another forum and trades as “Guypartsandservice”  but I can’t remember his forum username. He’s in Kenelworth in Warwickshire and comes up on a Google search. 

 

[Westie1 29]

Thanks for that, I've used meetens and the chap was great!

[AKAMick 0]

22 hours ago, Wristpin said:

Looking at your Gallery images, a bit of nostalgia there with the Ariens rear engined riders . We used to sell them as well as the YTs and GTs back in the 1980s . Not without their problems, the Tecumseh engines used to tear themselves out of the chassis and the Briggs engined ones had the cylinder head right up against the seat pedestal where the cooling fins used to bung up with grass, overheat and blow the head gaskets. On both the RMs and YTs the single 32” blade used to somehow manage to jump the “ high performance deck flange” and cause a certain amount of mayhem . Happy days!!

The Ariens was abandoned for scrap, left outside and the kingpins where frozen solid, bad tires and needed the deck rebuilt, good now, don't really need it though, but the OCD took over.

Edited January 29, 2019 by AKAMick