O&R Tiny Tiger Parts

[JDB44 0]

Looking for piston and connecting rod bearing for Tiny Tiger engine. Anyone know who may have these parts available and disassembly of engine?

Thank you in advance.

[factory 487]

 

Welcome to the forum, I'm curious as to why you need the bearings, are they missing or damaged? Also they changed the sizes of some of the bearings over the years, it depends on the age/type of engine as to the sizes required.

 

The engine rebuild thread should help with disassembly of the engine, be sure that the piston is free to move or the con-rod will get damaged when the cylinder barrel is unscrewed;

And here is the Tiny Tiger repair guide from John, with lots of pictures;

And the Tiny Tiger instructions I scanned also has disassembly instructions;

David

[JDB44 0]

Well picked the engine up a few years ago for my son. Had it running at our local steam and engine show and engine picked up speed and shutdown. Noticed it packed compression. Thought initially a gasket blew out on the exhaust manifold. Finally decided to start disassembling to see what was going on. Removed the cylinder barrel and found small pieces of metal on piston. Grabbed piston and noticed there were no bearings on connecting rod. Also bottom edge of piston had areas broken off. Would like to try finding parts to get running if possible.

[factory 487]

Last one I had that speed up & shutdown was due to the governor mechanism not working.

Your engine sounds worse as the piston has got damaged, it will need a complete engine stripdown & clean to make sure no bits of metal are left inside, anything missed could cause similar damage at 6300rpm.

Please post some pictures so we can correctly identify both the engine type and the parts needed, are you in the US?

 

Note that earlier engines don't have any needle rollers for the con-rod little end bearing, example below;

 

Also did you clean out any old crumbly filter foam from the carb air filter before it was run?

 

David

[JDB44 0]

Yes, I'm in the U.S. Engine had run good until that point. No filter media in air filter.  Will need to further disassemble to view connecting rod at wrist pin. Before we jumped into that was hoping there were parts available to rebuild vs scrapping.

[factory 487]

Ouch, that doesn't look good, are the rollers from the bearing still inside the bottom of the crankcase or had someone removed them? Either way the surface of the crank pin will probably have damage too. If the bearing did fail and flung out all the rollers then there could be damage to the crankcase too.

 

Have a look at the Tiny Tiger guide & instructions I linked in the earlier post for information on separating the generator from the engine, then you will be able to dismantle the engine further.

 

A few years ago I acquired a dismantled Tiny Tiger that had suffered a catastrophic bearing failure, there were lots of dents inside the crankcase from the bearing rollers and it was also cracked as a result. It required a donor engine block (with tapered output shaft) to rebuild, you should be able to find an incomplete engine for not too much money to use as a donor if needed. I think the shipping to the UK was more than the cost of the donor engine.

Here are some pictures of that Tiny Tiger, first picture as bought, second the donor engine, third the completed restoration.

David

[JDB44 0]

I think the needles are in the crankcase. Did not see evidence of them when I removed the cylinder head. I think this will be a winter teardown project. I appreciate all the information you have provided. Will follow up with you on what I find after the teardown.

[Wallfish 698]

After a catastrophic failure like that, my advice is to find another engine. To me it would be more dependable than repairing that one. The only thing you need on a different engine is the PTO crankshaft side needs to be tapered and have a threaded hole for the generator bolt. You will see engines with a shaft which have a longer round shaft with a flat side on them but if it has a bolt in it, that shaft comes off the tapered shaft you want. There's one on epay now but the guy wants like $199 for it. Nice engine but you can find one less expensive or buy that one and sell the extra parts. That gas tank alone might sell for $25 - $40 depending on bad someone wants it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-O-R-Ohlsson-Rice-Compact-Engine-w-Gas-Tank/323901552141?hash=item4b6a09760d:g:dN4AAOSwMH9dbAsu

Look at the shaft, remove that bolt and that shaft extension comes off the tapered crank end like you need for attaching a TT generator head.

If you search Orline on there, there are a couple of rods and bearings which might fit your engine but David @factory can help you with what fits better than I can.

 

On 10/15/2019 at 6:41 PM, JDB44 said:

Before we jumped into that was hoping there were parts available to rebuild vs scrapping.

You'll probably need a new piston and head, all the gaskets and seals, rod and bearings. By the time you pay for all of that you could probably find a donor engine, change the diaphragm and be up and running for the same amount or less. Plus not worry about if that case piston head and other parts are any good,. Just my opinion. Once you tear it down and have a good look see inside you can make a decision on the best approach. I might have the parts you need to do it.

[JDB44 0]

Thanks Wallfish. I think we paid a little over a hundred for this engine and only bought a fuel line and diaphragm for the carb. May cut our loses and sell as is or part out. Did make a great conversation piece at the shows.

[factory 487]

$199 is too much for an replacement engine for this, as Tiny Tigers can be bought for between $70 & $125, or a bit more for a really nice one, they were very popular in the 1960's and lots of them have survived.

 

If you keep a search on eBay, Craigslist or other selling sites you should be able to buy another engine with tapered & internally threaded PTO shaft for about $50/60 and hopefully a newer one with the bearings in metal cages rather those plastic ones (which I suspect this engine may have), also the later con-rod has the slot in the bottom to improve lubrication. Presumably O&R knew about these problems, hence why they improved the design.

 

Or you can cut your loses as you say and sell off the good parts, the gas tank, carb, air filter, exhaust, starter, governor vane etc. are all parts that are commonly damaged or missing.

The cylinder may be OK too once cleaned & honed, but the piston, con-rod & crankshaft will be damaged and the crankcase will also have damage as mine did (was cracked due to the high speed impacts from all the bearing rollers flying apart).

 

David

[Wallfish 698]

22 hours ago, JDB44 said:

Did make a great conversation piece at the shows.

Find another one. They are common and can be found.

They get quite a bit of attention when I display a bunch of them too. Most people have no idea they even made 2 stroke powered tools

[JDB44 0]

I appreciate your all's help. Decisions decisions.

[Wallfish 698]

26 minutes ago, JDB44 said:

Decisions decisions.

Easy, get out your credit card and start collecting every O&R tool you can find! Your welcome

[factory 487]

I'll just rephrase what I said earlier;

"Or you can cut your loses as you say and sell off the good parts, the gas tank, carb, air filter, exhaust, starter, governor vane etc. are all parts that are commonly damaged or missing." You have a selection of commonly wanted parts, that you'll find very useful when you find lots more O&R tools.

 

And they attract plenty of interest at shows over here in the UK too.

 

David

[Webhead 95]

Not sure why they sold so many. I can't imagine trying to power two or three light bulbs with all of the noise and smoke!

[JDB44 0]

I will say they take up less room than the horizontal shaft hit and miss engines we have collected and are not back breaking to take to shows. Would like to restore but afraid parts are will take awhile to get together. 

[factory 487]

Yes it would take a lot of time to both figure out the correct parts & find them, hence why I suggest looking for an engine block (the sort that RC modellers have removed/lost bits from) and transferring the good parts from your engine to that one. As I did to restore the yellow Tiny Tiger which must have suffered a similar failure.

 

On 10/19/2019 at 7:15 PM, Webhead said:

Not sure why they sold so many. I can't imagine trying to power two or three light bulbs with all of the noise and smoke!

 

And refilling the tank every hour.

 

Don't forget they advertised them as being suitable for powering all sorts of equipment, plus battery charging (just imagine your miles from anywhere with a flat battery & the O&R won't start either), or even cook the worlds smallest goose (below).

 

David

[JDB44 0]

They don't run long with a load on the Gen. Somehow people thought they were perfect for emergencies or camping. Now we have ultra quiet Honda and Ryobi gens that run hours and almost powerful enough to power a house slightly larger than the Tiny Tiger.

[factory 487]

18 hours ago, JDB44 said:

Now we have ultra quiet Honda

The Honda E40 (40W) & E300 (300W) generators were available by the mid 1960's, they are indeed much quieter and the one I've seen several times at engine shows was very reliable too.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XOMDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA1&pg=PA189#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://global.honda/heritage/episodes/1965thee300.html

The E300 would certainly have been in direct competition with the Tiny Tigers.

 

David

[Webhead 95]

3 hours ago, factory said:

The Honda E40 (40W) & E300 (300W) generators were available by the mid 1960's, they are indeed much quieter and the one I've seen several times at engine shows was very reliable too.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XOMDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA1&pg=PA189#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://global.honda/heritage/episodes/1965thee300.html

The E300 would certainly have been in direct competition with the Tiny Tigers.

 

David

Wow, and those things are going for big bucks! The more Japanese things that I see like this, makes me think that they are the best engineers in the world. After all, I'm on my 14th Toyota truck since 1985 and have never taken one back to a dealer due to mechanical failure. The build quality is next to nothing. Don't get me wrong, I love vintage American stuff, but have you ever seen the guts of a mid 1970's high end Pioneer stereo?

[factory 487]

Those Honda engines are so good the Chinese are cloning them. Over here we have a car show on TV called "Top Gear" they tried and failed to destroy a Toyota Hi-Lux, each time they thought it was dead they got it going again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk

 

I haven't got much Pioneer stuff here (possibly only a 1980's turntable which required very little work to repair), but have watched the video Shango066 did on the Pioneer SA9500, I don't know how high end it is, note Shango066 only really does diagnosis & resurrection videos not full restorations.

There aren't many stereos here due to the space they take up, but I do have plenty of vintage radios from pre-war tube sets all the way up to the solid state stuff from the 1960's & 1970's, the tiny Sony radios from the 1960's are quite nice. I also have some Japanese made test equipment that Yokogawa built for HP, the quality is superb too.

 

David

[JDB44 0]

They don't run long with a load on the Gen. Somehow people thought they were perfect for emergencies or camping. Now we have ultra quiet Honda and Ryobi gens that run hours and almost powerful enough to power a house slightly larger than the Tiny Tiger.

Got to remember in the 60's Japanese goods were considered junk(astigmatism of WW2). Not until the 70's did the younger folks start seeing the quality and low cost in the Japanese products especially from Sony, Panasonic, Toyota and Honda. Lol Top Gear.....cool show. We get it here on BBC America. Even had an American version for awhile.

Please excuse the pervious post. Tried to reply and it copied earlier response.

[Wallfish 698]

On 10/21/2019 at 8:20 PM, JDB44 said:

Would like to restore but afraid parts are will take awhile to get together. 

There's a TT parts motor on epay now. Search Tiny Tiger and you should find it. Nothing to loose by "making an offer" and asking a few questions. Looks like it might have all the parts you need plus some

[Webhead 95]

On 10/24/2019 at 6:55 PM, JDB44 said:

They don't run long with a load on the Gen. Somehow people thought they were perfect for emergencies or camping. Now we have ultra quiet Honda and Ryobi gens that run hours and almost powerful enough to power a house slightly larger than the Tiny Tiger.

Got to remember in the 60's Japanese goods were considered junk(astigmatism of WW2). Not until the 70's did the younger folks start seeing the quality and low cost in the Japanese products especially from Sony, Panasonic, Toyota and Honda. Lol Top Gear.....cool show. We get it here on BBC America. Even had an American version for awhile.

Please excuse the pervious post. Tried to reply and it copied earlier response.

Understood that it was considered junk, kinda like Chinese today, but there is a growing enthusiasm towards earlier Japanese items, especially the tin lithograph toys. I pick up old Japanese transistor radios (pre 1970) occasionally, and it amazes me that 90% of the time, I stick a 9 volt in the darn thing and it sounds like new! The ones that don't wok are corroded and were not stored correctly. And some of these go for big bucks!

[Wallfish 698]

On 10/21/2019 at 8:20 PM, JDB44 said:

Would like to restore but afraid parts are will take awhile to get together. 

There's a TT parts motor on epay now. Search Tiny Tiger and you should find it. Nothing to loose by "making an offer" and asking a few questions. Looks like it might have all the parts you need plus some