Wallfish

Are you having trouble running an O&R ? If so, best to start a new thread of your own and let us know the background of the engine and if it's on a tool like a TT

Thanks That's kinda what I figured so one the earlier rebuilt engines is being used for the TT 400. That Octura valve engine will go with the White Heat engine set up I have. Unfortunately I don't have the boat hull (YET) but have all of the mechanical stuff like the exhaust and out drive.

Thought I remembered @factory posted a bulletin that these are simply to be replaced and not serviced. But maybe it's only a suggestion as I found some of those small retainer clips and a thrust washer for them in the NOS parts. That's an indication they are to be serviced.

Have 2 sets of NOS hens teeth Plus there's a couple / few in the hardware pile that have springs missing. I'm thinking solder on new pieces for springs on those. Maybe cut some thin strips of copper sheet metal for the springs. Did you make air baffles before? Thinking about giving that a shot too but it's going to be difficult to get them to look original or somewhat close. Wondering if I can make some kind of a mold out of pipe and steel to press them with a hydraulic jack or hammer it hard together. IDK. Another crazy experiment that sucks up time but the challenge of it is most of the fun.

He said he could make them. We'll have to pay him something but he never said how much. I'm thinking $10 each is fair. ??? What do you guys think? Maybe depends on how many he does. Terry= 8 Me= 5 Clint= ? @CNew Then I'll probably round it up too so there are some extras available

Well here's another one rebuilt. Used the so called "unserviceable" shaft that was serviced in the other thread about changing the shaft. And the muffler from the muffler bluing thread. Recoils and housings will need to wait as I have 2 or 3 that need paint and new decals. Maybe in the spring.

So the muffler came out nice. Definitely looks better than paint and super glad I tried it. Not as blue of a tint as the originals but still. This would've been a wasted muffler before because how bad it was. Now I wouldn't hesitate to put in on an NOS engine. Just as easy to do as paint without the over spray, smell and drying time. So it's actually easier IMO. I'm going to try heating it up too as it would get when the engine is running, just as an experiment because it's fine for a display but maybe not for an actual runner.

Just to confirm, they are serviceable. Changed shafts, new seal and used the better cleaner parts of each to make one good one with the shaft end I wanted.

Frustrating to remove that small retaining ring which holds the thrust washer and races but it is possible. There's a tapered shaft with the 2 slots that I would like to use for an engine but one of the washer races was in 3 pieces after opening it up. I have plenty of old chainsaw type shaft engines so thought I would just give it a try to remove those thrust washers. Frustrating to get it off but they do separate. Now the seal can be serviced too. It's the same seal as used for the flywheel side.

Pete the neighbor knocked one out and it looks really good. Although it does look better, I told him they don't need those decorative rings. (unless you guys want any like that)

Hammer restoration huh? Man you're really getting into the crazy tech stuff. Just bust'n, please let me know how it works out.

Perfect. Glad to help and glad it worked out to save that housing. You should start a new thread about your drill. Those Chug A Drills aren't very common. Less here in the US. Please post some pics of it and ask any questions if you have any. Most likely it will require a new carb diaphragm.

This muffler was badly rusted. Didn't get a before pic but you can see the pits in the steel. Soaked it in vinegar for a couple days and cleaned it up on the wire wheel. Ordered some gun cold blueing stuff and just waiting for it to arrive to try it out. If it doesn't work then I'll just go with black high heat engine paint. Has anyone tried bluing one like the originals were? Or at least that's what I think that coating is.

I added to the last response and did a recoil repair tutorial although there will be more pics and information added. It's now a pinned topic on the main list of threads for the Ohlsson and Rice section

DO NOT DRILL OUT THE RIVET which is holding the center bearing! If it hasn't been already. The spools can be removed without destroying that rivet. If the rivet has already been drilled, that can be repaired as well but the housing will not look original anymore and will appear like it's repaired with a nut and bolt. This repair thread is for the original style recoils which are an integrated part of the blower housing. The newer type with the separate square recoil part on 13B engines will be covered separately Removing the spool- First remove the knob from the rope. Best to push and pick the rope knot out of the top and cut only that knot off. If there is still spring tension, it's easiest if a quick knot is tied about 6-8 down to keep the tension off the rope and not allow the rope to just suck in by the recoiling of the spring. After removing the knob release any tension of the spring slowly until it's neutral of any tension. There are a couple different styles of housings whereas early recoils do not utilize a retaining clip (#17) to hold the spool in. The later production recoils do have a retaining clip. The clip is a bit difficult to see and could appear just like it's the inside of the spool. That's why quite a few get the rivet drilled out but the spool will not come out if it has that retaining clip in place. See the pictures below. The retaining clip is a ring that's silver, not black like the spool is. It clips into tiny slots right near the main body of the housing. Look for the opening in the clip and that too is very small and possibly hidden from view as well. The clip is #17 in the IPL drawing. To release the clip use a small flat screwdriver to press it inwards towards the center to release it from the little slots all the way around the housing. As it's released move it towards the other side of the spool, engine side. Once the clip is loose or if there isn't one, pinch the spool with small pliers as close to the center as possible, not on the outer ring, and pull while rotating the spool back and forth. Do not pull hard enough to bend the spool. Sometimes repositioning the pliers to pinch it 180 deg from the first spot or go back and forth which seems to work better. Sometimes they come right off and sometimes they need to be worked off of that center bearing but they do pull off. Spring-- For best results and smooth operation after any repairs, the spring should be completely removed from the housing and cleaned by soaking and or wiping the old grease/oil off. Also clean the inside of the housing and the center bearing. Older recoils used a different type of clip to retain the spring. (#11) These devises are difficult to remove without bending or breaking them but it must be removed anyway to get the spring removed. Since newer models didn't use them, they still work fine without them. I have NOS #11 pieces yet haven't been successful installing one so I just skip it. Not an issue so far. Repairing a broken spring. The broken end of the spring can be re-shaped if it has broken off. Heat about 1 inch of the end of the spring until it's cherry red. I use a small butane torch but even a cigarette lighter will probably work. Let it air cool and do not quench it. That heat will remove the brittle "spring" characteristics of the steel and allow it to bend without breaking it. Below is a pic of what that bend of the spring looks like and it's fairly easy using small needle nose pliers to shape it. The shape is important so the tail remains inside the indent of the center bearing. If it protrudes out at all, the spool can not be seated back in properly. Recoiling the spring and getting it back into the housing isn't fun or always easy. It can be recoiled directly back into the housing starting from the outside in or coil the spring first and then insert it back into the housing. It's nice to have a spring holder and especially if doing a bunch of them. A holder / retainer can be made from 2" pipe which makes installation much easier. The coiled spring is loaded into it then It's simply inserted into the housing. The holder is removed while holding the spring down in the housing. After removal the spring tension must be released slowly until it's neutral. Not the best pic but the tail of the spring must fit all the way into the indent of the bearing. Otherwise the spool will not go down. The spring must slip into the slot on the spool Rope It is retained in the spool with a small wire. Remove that old wire completely or any remnants of it and find a short piece of wire about the same size to use for retaining the rope to the spool. I have used a copper strand from electrical wire because it's soft enough to manipulate to get the ends into those tiny holes on the side of the spool. Basically untwist just a single strand of the copper wire off of the larger twisted wire but it needs to be thick enough. To small and thin and it will easily break. Copper or steel or anything you can get in there should work. Even a small paper clip but I haven't tried one. Below is a pic of what the NOS repair wire looks like before it's inserted into the spool. The bend for the tips makes it easier to get into the spool holes The wire twist must bend over tight to fit in this indent of the spool otherwise it will catch on the spring Once you get that small loop of wire inserted through the holes in the side of the spool pull the tails through so there's just a small loop down inside the spool, feed and poke the end of the rope through that loop in the wire. Cut the end of the rope so it has a nice clean edge. Use a cigarette lighter or a match to heat the edge of the rope in order to seal it and keep it from fraying. It will melt and do just a little bit at a time. Just enough to melt the edges of the fibers. Once you melt the edge, quickly twist it in your fingers to keep that hardened edge the same or smaller size diameter than the the rope. Too much melted and it will be too big to fit through that wire loop. That size is important for trying to get the edge of the rope through that little loop of the wire inside the spool. I use a small pick tool to push it and pick it from the opposite side to pull it through. Once you get the rope through the wire loop pull it through enough so you can now heat the edge of the rope again. This time melt the edge of the rope so it does create a hardened edge that's bigger than the diameter of the rope. This hardened bulge on the end of the rope will prevent it from ever pulling through the retaining wire once that wire is cinched down. Now pull the retaining wire tails so the loop is just snug to the rope. Then pull the rope back through so that little bulge you created is almost snug to the retaining wire loop. Using pliers, pinch, pull and twist both tails of that retaining wire to lock the rope to the spool. Be careful not to twist too tight and break that wire or you need to start all over, but it does need to be tight enough to hold the rope snug. It's a very fine line between breaking the wire and having it tight enough. Best to go 1/2 twist at a time once it's close to being tight. After it's twisted tight and the rope is locked to the spool, cut the twisted wire tail off. Leave about 1/8 inch long of twisted wire. Then bend over that twisted tail so it fits down below the indent of the spool. Bend it to the right and the opposite way it is shown bent over in your pic but I'm not sure it makes a difference. That's how the originals are done so I just follow that. Wind the rope onto the spool. You will need to cut the knot off that retains the handle and heat the end just like before to stop the fray of fibers but keep it small enough to fit back through the handle hole. ( There should be a spring inside that type of handle) Just a hole in the newer ball type Feed the end of the rope, after it's spooled up, through one of the openings in the spool with about 3 inches or so protruding out. This will allow the spool to be installed without interfering with the edge of the housing, Now is a good time to oil the spring. Drops all around so it gets in between the coils. Insert the spool over the bearing and back into the housing. That little slot on the bottom of the spool must catch the spring and that's why it's important to have that spring bent and properly positioned. ADD INSTALLED SPRING PIC HERE There can not be any other part of the spring protruding out from the bearing which would prevent the spool from sliding all the way down and the slot catching the spring. Once the spool is down in place and caught on the spring, use that tail of the rope that's protruding up to spin the spool counter clockwise. Usually it's about 3-4 revolutions to create enough spring tension on it to recoil. Hold the tension on the spool with your thumb when the rope tail is at the top and at the location it goes through the housing and up to the handle stop. Now feed the tail of the rope back through the spool edge and out to the front of the housing. Grab it and feed the rope up through the hole in the handle stop and tie a quick knot to keep it from recoiling. If there is a # 17 retainer clip you can now use a small screwdriver to clip it back into those housing slots. This is a good time to test the action of the recoil and verify everything is working properly. Pull and release the rope quite a few times to get that spring to settle in it's proper place and disperse the oil all around it too. It should pull and retract with ease and have enough tension that it recoils all the way in. Once you are happy with the performance, tie a loose quick release knot about 8-10 inches down on the rope. This will prevent it from spooling back in while you work on the handle. Send the rope end through the little spacer first, then through the handle and then through the handle spring if there is one (Older style). One end of the spring is smaller than the other so that end is the top where the knot will hold and retain the handle. That's all there is to it! Definitely not the easiest thing for the first timer doing it!!!

Yes, that can be repaired. Did the little hook on the end break? I'm so glad the rivet wasn't drilled off because that's what many do believing it retains the spool. Spring-- The broken end of the spring can be re-shaped. Heat the end of it until it's cherry red. That will remove the brittle "spring" characteristics of the steel and allow it to be bent without breaking it. I will get you a pic of what that bend looks like and it's fairly easy using small needle nose pliers. For best results and smooth operation after repairs the spring should be completely removed from the housing and cleaned by soaking and or wiping the old grease/oil off. Also clean the inside of the housing. Recoiling the spring and getting it back into the housing isn't fun or always easy. It can be recoiled right back into the housing or do the coil first and insert it back into the housing. If doing a bunch of them a retainer can be made from 2" pipe which makes installation much easier. Rope Yes it's retained in the spool with the wire. Remove that old wire and find a short piece of wire about the same size to use. I have used a copper strand from electrical wire because it's soft enough to manipulate to get the ends into those tiny holes. Basically untwist just a single strand of the wire off of the larger twisted wire but anything you can get in there should work. I'll post a pic of what the NOS repair wire looks like before it's inserted into the spool. Once you get that small loop of wire inside the spool you will need to poke the end of the rope through it and pull it through. First, Cut the end of the rope so it has a nice clean edge. Use a cigarette lighter or a match to heat that edge of the rope in order to seal it and keep it from fraying. It will melt and do just a little bit at a time. Just enough to melt the edges of the fibers. Once you melt the edge quickly twist it in your fingers to keep that hardened edge the same or smaller size than the diameter of the rope. Too much melted and it will be too big to fit. This is important for trying to get the edge of the rope through that little loop of the wire. I use a small pick tool to push it and pick it from the opposite side to pull it through. Once you get the rope through the wire loop pull it through enough so you can now heat the edge of the rope again. This time melt the edge of the rope so it creates a hardened edge that's bigger than the diameter of the rope. This hardened bulge on the end of the rope will prevent it from ever pulling through the retaining wire once that wire is cinched down. Now pull the retaining wire tails so the loop is just snug to the rope. Then pull the rope back through so that little bulge you created is almost snug to the retaining wire loop. Using pliers pull and twist the 2 tails of that retaining wire to lock the rope to the spool. Be careful not to twist too tight and break that wire or you need to start all over, but it does need to be tight to hold the rope so it has no movement at all. It's a very fine line between breaking the wire and having tight enough. Best to go 1/2 twist at a time once it's close to being tight. Once it's twisted tight and the rope is locked to the spool, cut the twisted wire tail off. Leave about 1/8 inch long of twisted wire Then bend over that twisted tail so it fits down below the indent of the spool. Bend it to the right and the opposite way it is shown bent over in your pic but I'm not sure it makes a difference. That's how the originals are done so I just follow that. Wind the rope onto the spool. You will need to cut the knot off that retains the handle and heat the end just like before to stop the fray of fibers but keep it small enough to fit back through the handle hole. ( There should be a spring inside that type of handle) Just a hole in the newer ball type Feed the end of the rope, after it's spooled up, through one of the openings in the spool with about 3 inches or so protruding out. This will allow the spool to be installed without interfering with the edge of the housing, Insert the spool over the bearing and back into the housing. That little slot on the bottom of the spool must catch the spring and that's why it's important to have that spring bent and properly positioned. It should look just like your pic but it must have the bend in it to catch the spool. There can not be any other part of the spring touching or protruding out from the bearing which would prevent the spool from sliding all the way down and the slot catching the spring. Once the spool is down in place and caught on the spring, use that tail of the rope that's protruding up to spin the spool counter clockwise. Usually it's about 3-4 revolutions to create enough spring tension on it to recoil. Hold the tension on the spool with your thumb when the rope tail is at the top and at the location it goes through the housing and up to the handle stop. Now feed the tail of the rope back through the spool edge and out to the front of the housing. Grab it and feed the rope up through the hole in the handle stop. This is a good time to test the action of the recoil and verify everything is working properly but hold that rope tight. Pull and release the rope quite a few times to get that spring to settle in it's proper place. It should pull and retract with ease and have enough tension that it recoils all the way in. Once you are happy with the performance, tie a loose quick release knot about 6-8 inches down on the rope. This will prevent it from spooling back in while you work on the handle. Send the rope end through the little spacer first, then through the handle and then through the handle spring if there is one. One end of the spring is smaller than the other so that end is the top where the knot will hold and retain the handle. That's all there is to it! Definitely not the easiest thing for the first time doing it This may be a good opportunity and time to make a completely new Recoil Repair Tutorial thread for others to follow as well. It's something I've been meaning to do for a while now. I'll get some stuff together and do one with pics and maybe some video to help explain things. These are NOT that fun to work with and it's one of my least favorite things to work on as they can be frustrating when starting out and doing one for the first time. Much of what was written is is easier said than done and it's a learning curve for sure. They do get much easier to do the more that are done but most people don't have a large collection and just need one or two done. Just don't smash it with a hammer under the frustration! LOL NOS recoil spring bend for center. Notice the tail curves a little. That's to keep it inside the indent of the center bearing That's how they come NOS, in that retainer which makes them fairly easy to install. They can be done without the retainer as well.. but use your thumb to control the unwind speed so it's slow Here's a retainer made from 2 inch pipe

Me either. Let me know if you want any more pics. You can see in the pics it was leaking but there wasn't a small paper ring gasket installed to seal it to the case I have a few Octura built water cooled head engines. Haven't been through them all yet but I'm gonna look now. I'm thinking this valve better belongs in one of those instead of a generator.

Upon opening the engine I saw this. A strange valve setup so I stared at it a bit confused as I can't recall ever seeing this before and was also questioning my memory. Well, as it turns out it's one of those rare and coveted Octura made valves. Strange that it would be on a TT 400 but maybe they ordered them for manufacturing these???? Maybe David @factory might have some insight on this. Unfortunately there's no model number stamped into it and the air baffle is a clean one so obviously changed.

This unit was cleaned up before but never completely disassembled and gone through. Now super glad I did which I'll share later. It wasn't easy to figure out how to remove the gen head and by the appearance of those slotted screws on the sides of it , neither could the last guy! Those slotted screws hold the magnets to the case. These gen head parts are unlike the 300 or 350 models where the magnet spins and the coils are stationary. The 400 spins the coils and the magnets are stationary so it utilizes carbon brushes and a commutator like a regular brush motor. Finally figured out how to separate the parts. So --- the cap on the rear cover below the plug outlet needs to be removed (easier said than done) in order to access the screw head retaining it. It's a taper fit to the shaft just like the flywheel so loosen the screw slightly and tap the head of it with a hammer to break the taper bond.

TT 400. No where near as common as the 300 or 350 are. Pulled this one out to copy the base for the earlier 300 but now it's going to be the next one up for a rebuild too.

Thanks! Might try again to get the connection ends for the screw better. IDK They do go quicker once you do a couple and don't drop the roller bearings! I use the magnet of the flywheel to find them! LOL Also use it to hold them so they don't escape by accident. That flashing is thin enough to cut with the blade type paper cutter to keep the edge straight and perfect the entire length. The paper cutter was bought for accurately cutting that thin spring steel sheet for making those tiny carb springs. ( Of which I need to make more of now) Works well for some gaskets and other stuff too when you want or need a nice straight cut. The flashing could also be cut with a straight edge and a razor knife to score it then bend it to break it off but the edges don't come out quite as clean.

David @factory might be able to help you since he's much closer. Good recoil assemblies are something I'm short on for the engines I have. Many come ruined or missing on used engines. They do pop up on ebay every once in a while but they usually sell quick if it's a reasonable price. But I do have some NOS and used springs. The springs can be changed. Please don't drill out the rivet to remove the spool if you haven't already. The spool will come off by pulling and twisting it but later models do have a retaining clip deep inside there which is difficult to see. We can help you on how to repair the recoil you have and it's also possible to rework the existing spring depending upon it's condition. If the rivet was drilled, that can also be repaired. If you can post some pics of your recoil that might help to determine if it's salvageable.

A piece of aluminum flashing cut to size, folded on the edges for some strength and a screw to cinch it tight worked well. The flaps and screw don't look as nice as the latch thingy they used but once it's on the base it'll barely be visible anyway. Not sure about the shine of it so might dull it down a bit so it doesn't look out of place on there. Just need to cut a thicker piece of aluminum sheet for the base of which I do have a large piece of. Rebuilding engines is is going good so far as I'm up to 6 done. These 5 plus the Amp Champ.

Type G engine rebuilt. New rings seals etc along with the gear box and a new seal in that. Ran out of good recoils and air baffles This had originally came with a weird rubber paddle fan attached so I put it back on

Actually 3300 rpm It's a Model G gearbox. Not common Yes, the metal strap Ohlsson & Rice Compact Industrial Engines Gear Cases Mar 1964-1.pdf