Mower Deck refurbishment

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

On 09/07/2017 at 7:16 PM, Stormin said:

 The underneath of yours looks perfect compared with my side discharge. Very badly pitted.

 

It looks ok now Norm, bit of a state when I started the long job, but should be good for a few seasons if cleaned properly and carefully.

Been sorting the Anti scalp Roller. I Machined up 2 flanged Bushes to fit the bearings and the fabricated Pin. I used Cast Iron and as many will know, it produces a lot of fine particles of black dust. So having mentioned this in a PM to Alan, here is a pic of the result that a few carefully placed Magnets wrapped in a plastic bag can do to confine it-

 

It catches most of it and allows a quick clean up after.

Finished Bushes and a sliding fit on the 1/2" dia pin-

 

As I'm pinching the flanged Bushes against the Roller bearings between the 2 mower brackets I needed to thread the end of the Pin 3/8" x 18 UNC for a nylock Nut.

Rest of the parts and the old Pin -

 

Trial fit and all good..... back to cleaning and painting.

Regards 

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Finally got my Bearings delivered 4 days late. I always seem to get the dyslexic stand-in Postman who tries to deliver my package(s) to somewhere else.....and it was a 'Sign For' item-

 

Rant over, I fitted the bearings with both seals in place and so will blank off the Grease point. The Spindle needed more finishing to remove more raised scoring before fitting without excessive strain on the bearings. The top Oil Seal is a cheaper SKF double lip version, as it will now only need to keep dust and water out and the proper Toro Seal would cost over ukl£20!.

So having prepped the Deck Shell for paint, I had put the first coat of the horrible Synthetic Paint on 4 days ago and still waiting for it to fully harden. 

With the Centre Spindle rebuilt and silky smooth spinning, I fitted it back in place-

 

I will do away with the Keys from the Pulleys at a later stage and convert to Nuts and Lock Washers as per Wheel Horse Service Bulletin #429. I have one spindle with a slightly sloppy Keyway.

Getting close to deciding what kind of final finish coating to apply underneath. 

[Stormin 4,458]

 

6 hours ago, Anglo Traction said:

 

 

 I fitted the bearings with both seals in place and so will blank off the Grease point.  

 

 My personal view of sealed for life bearings is not the best. When I rebuilt my rear discharge deck, I removed one seal and fitted the bearings  seal side out. I like to use a grease gun now and then.

 

  As to paint for underneath, a good agricultural enamel.

[C-101plowerpower 548]

46 minutes ago, Stormin said:

 

 

 My personal view of sealed for life bearings is not the best. When I rebuilt my rear discharge deck, I removed one seal and fitted the bearings  seal side out. I like to use a grease gun now and then.

 

  As to paint for underneath, a good agricultural enamel.

 

one of the arguments of not doing that is eventually pushing the outer seals out with grease.

[Stormin 4,458]

5 minutes ago, C-101plowerpower said:

 

one of the arguments of not doing that is eventually pushing the outer seals out with grease.

 

 Depends on how heavy handed you are.

[S1g 579]

If it's something that going to be used I'm often tempted to use tetroseal underseal, on out of sight bits. It's a lot less sticky than waxoyl underseal

[Stormin 4,458]

 Again I'm not a lover of underseal. Especially the type that puts a skin on. If it gets damage, water can get behind and start corrosion. My local garden machinery man, now sold up and retired unfortunately, advised spraying/painting old oil under decks. Helps prevent grass etc sticking. I personally remove and clean mine after each use.

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Thanks Gents for the opinions on the underseal options, always welcome suggestions, so I'll have a good think about which way to go. I have a large spray can of Automotive chip resistant white paint to use up, so I'll put that on first, followed by whatever, but would probably be comfortable using a good enamel like Norm says, then would have the option to slap Underseal of some kind on if required  ?.

 

2 hours ago, Stormin said:

 

 

 My personal view of sealed for life bearings is not the best. When I rebuilt my rear discharge deck, I removed one seal and fitted the bearings  seal side out. I like to use a grease gun now and then.

.

I had a long think about pulling the seal(s) and keeping the Grease Point, but decided against it after posing the question on Redsquare and for 2 other reasons.

I would not expect anyone to notice the deliberate assembly error in my pic of the fitted Spindle, but the upper Spacer face that the Oil Seal Lips run on were graunched . I had to fit it upside down (it was fitted wrong originally anyway) which negated my option to pull both of the seals from the Top Bearing. 

This would be essential if I wanted to grease them, as the  2 small cutouts in the top Spacer have to line up with the Grease Groove in the Spindle so the grease is forced via the top of the upper Bearing, through it's Race and into the chamber to hopefully somewhere near the bottom one.

Problem is, I could not see where any pressure/air relief could escape from the chamber in order to allow more grease in, short of blowing the lower seal, or the separately fitted top Oil Seal (unless everything is a loose fit with gaps !.

Secondly, the bearing spec is good enough for me and there are Sealed for Life Bearings all over these Tractors and their ancillaries that go through hell and survive long time....we shall see.

Thanks, Regards.

 

  

 

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

On 09/07/2017 at 7:16 PM, Stormin said:

 The underneath of yours looks perfect compared with my side discharge. Very badly pitted.

It looks better now Norm. Difficult job getting the sealant off initially, I had to chip it off, then deal with the rust and prep. Wish I knew what they used, 'cause I would put some back on it.

 

Been slapping the old Tractor Enamel on the underside of the Deck (first coat), mainly to use up the remainder in the can-

 

Belt Covers and Rear Chute painted today, so they're dangling in the Garage to dry.

 

 

[HeadExam 1,783]

On 7/16/2017 at 3:35 PM, Anglo Traction said:

Thanks Gents for the opinions on the underseal options, always welcome suggestions, so I'll have a good think about which way to go. I have a large spray can of Automotive chip resistant white paint to use up, so I'll put that on first, followed by whatever, but would probably be comfortable using a good enamel like Norm says, then would have the option to slap Underseal of some kind on if required  ?.

 

.

I had a long think about pulling the seal(s) and keeping the Grease Point, but decided against it after posing the question on Redsquare and for 2 other reasons.

I would not expect anyone to notice the deliberate assembly error in my pic of the fitted Spindle, but the upper Spacer face that the Oil Seal Lips run on were graunched . I had to fit it upside down (it was fitted wrong originally anyway) which negated my option to pull both of the seals from the Top Bearing. 

This would be essential if I wanted to grease them, as the  2 small cutouts in the top Spacer have to line up with the Grease Groove in the Spindle so the grease is forced via the top of the upper Bearing, through it's Race and into the chamber to hopefully somewhere near the bottom one.

Problem is, I could not see where any pressure/air relief could escape from the chamber in order to allow more grease in, short of blowing the lower seal, or the separately fitted top Oil Seal (unless everything is a loose fit with gaps !.

Secondly, the bearing spec is good enough for me and there are Sealed for Life Bearings all over these Tractors and their ancillaries that go through hell and survive long time....we shall see.

Thanks, Regards.

 

  

 

My 1973 Allis 416 decks don't have grease points and the arbors are still working fine. The only thing that messed one up was the previous owner/mechanic cross threading the center spindle nut and not using the spacer washer allowing the pulley to wobble and destroy the key way groove

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

I caved in and thought I'd put a finishing spray coat over the Deck Shell to lose some of the brush marks in the paint. Ordered Custom filled Aerosols from the same place as the Tin of Enamel and same RAL Colour number with the anticipation it would be a pretty close match . 1 can was packed already damaged and not in transit-

Yes, they ship them with the Nozzles fitted as well !!!. Delivered to me on the 20th at 1400 intact with no external damage.

The attempt to make it look like damage in transit failed, as they forgot to include the missing bits of the Cap, the paint was solid and no paint or fumes inside the packaging...... Oh, and their response was 'They can guarantee it was not packed like that' .

With a difference of 10 grammes between the Cans as well, I find the colour match is miles out on the Trial ass'y-

.....So I have had to repaint the Brackets and to do the rest of the Carrier Frame as well .

Decals are on order, as is the Spindle Drive Belt.

 

[Stormin 4,458]

Bet you won't be dealing with them again, Richard. I know I wouldn't and I'd tell them.

[HeadExam 1,783]

5 hours ago, Anglo Traction said:

I caved in and thought I'd put a finishing spray coat over the Deck Shell to lose some of the brush marks in the paint. Ordered Custom filled Aerosols from the same place as the Tin of Enamel and same RAL Colour number with the anticipation it would be a pretty close match . 1 can was packed already damaged and not in transit-

Yes, they ship them with the Nozzles fitted as well !!!. Delivered to me on the 20th at 1400 intact with no external damage.

The attempt to make it look like damage in transit failed, as they forgot to include the missing bits of the Cap, the paint was solid and no paint or fumes inside the packaging...... Oh, and their response was 'They can guarantee it was not packed like that' .

With a difference of 10 grammes between the Cans as well, I find the colour match is miles out on the Trial ass'y-

.....So I have had to repaint the Brackets and to do the rest of the Carrier Frame as well .

Decals are on order, as is the Spindle Drive Belt.

 

It is very disheartening to put so much labor and attention to details and have people let you down like this. They really don't care what you think or if you or anyone does business with them ever again, that's the mentality killing our entire civilisation.

[meadowfield 1,900]

On 28/07/2017 at 7:59 PM, Anglo Traction said:

I caved in and thought I'd put a finishing spray coat over the Deck Shell to lose some of the brush marks in the paint. Ordered Custom filled Aerosols from the same place as the Tin of Enamel and same RAL Colour number with the anticipation it would be a pretty close match . 1 can was packed already damaged and not in transit-

Yes, they ship them with the Nozzles fitted as well !!!. Delivered to me on the 20th at 1400 intact with no external damage.

The attempt to make it look like damage in transit failed, as they forgot to include the missing bits of the Cap, the paint was solid and no paint or fumes inside the packaging...... Oh, and their response was 'They can guarantee it was not packed like that' .

With a difference of 10 grammes between the Cans as well, I find the colour match is miles out on the Trial ass'y-

.....So I have had to repaint the Brackets and to do the rest of the Carrier Frame as well .

Decals are on order, as is the Spindle Drive Belt.

 

Looking good Richard, shame about the paint

 

decals were posted this this morning I believe, hope they arrive swiftly... got the main man running the decals site now!

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Hi Mark, Yeah, Have been repainting more parts today as it was nice n sunny.

Thanks You/Ewan for sorting the Decals.

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Found more problems when I torqued up another Spindle Nut, no longer smooth n quiet. Had to dismantle it to see what was going on. Spacer tube on Left and the Shaft Oil Seal Collar on right -

 

 

This look's very much like the Assembly had seized up in the past where the top Inner Race began turning with the Spindle and wore down the Spacer end and broke up.

Collar also somehow cracked and lost metal in the cutout recess. Have to make the replacement parts as unobtainable separately new.

 

Also a pic to show why both Seals on the top Bearing need to be removed if Grease replenishment is planned after new ones fitted, the grease will only come out of the seal below the Pulley because it can't get past the top seal if left in place-

Hope this helps. Regards.

 

.

[Stormin 4,458]

Are you not removing the top seal on the bottom bearing, Richard?

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

1 hour ago, Stormin said:

Are you not removing the top seal on the bottom bearing, Richard?

Hi Norm, No I won't remove any seals. Going to apply grease to the internal parts prior to assembly, then blank the Grease Zerk point off.

I will apply grease into the upper area between the top of the Bearing and the separate Oil Seal below the Pulley and inside the bottom Spindle Cup to keep any water away from the lower Bearing.   

[Stormin 4,458]

Is it going to be a worker, Richard? I've no seals in the bearings in mine. I give them a couple of shots of grease now and them. Mine does get a lot of use and abuse though. Some of the ground I mow is quite rough.

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Yes it will be,  I want it fully 'tip-top' serviceable, as I'll sell it on at some point,  maybe attached to the C-120. Most Spindles nowadays use 'Sealed-for-Life'.

 

Just found that the lower end of this Spindle Housing has been opened up to 1 5/8" from 40mm and they machined it too deeply, so more problems to  sort.

Have to check the remaining one now, just to be sure.    

[HeadExam 1,783]

I had something similar happen on my 42" Bolens tube frame deck. Someone had reassembled the arbor shaft and bearings in the opposite order and grease could not enter the bearing area, as the grease journal was blocked by a bearing, once the arbor was reassembled the proper way the arbor shaft was able to be greased. The prior spindle rebuild and repair prematurely failed due to the negligence of the previous mechanic. I call this Machinery Forensics, and much like these medical crime dramas on the TV, it takes an autopsy from a machinery detective to find out what the guilty party did to cause the machine to fail. I see this scenario play out on this forum more often than many other forums, because often you blokes want others to understand what happened, what caused it, and what the remedy is. 

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Yes Alain, I have to work out why something fails, only then can a way be found to sort the problem and maybe reduce the risk of it reoccurring. These parts I need are obtainable in US, but lots of Dosh to ship over, so I started on making my own yesterday, after dashing around to my local supplier for the last piece of 1" dia precision ground Silver Steel (Drill Rod in U.S.) in their stock-

 

Long job cutting a length off with the Hacksaw, but reached a point where the first item/part's bore is machined to size (3/4") on the lathe and ready to be transferred to the Milling Machine (still in the Chuck) for the Slots to be cut, before returning to the lathe for finishing & Parting it off-

 

 

 

I shall go quiet for a while on this until I have finished the parts which will require hardening/tempering and a spare complete Spindle Assembly I located arrives.    

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Back at last. Finished machining the 2 Spacer Collars-

 

Heat treated them on Sunday, as I then used the Oven (while roasting Dinner) to temper them for an hour at 200c.

Polished up and all good with no distortion, should be as hard and strong as the originals

 

The 'T' shaped Lift Bar that fits in the Tractor Frame was in a mess. Distorted, rusty and worn out (sound's like me). I was going to cut the Pivot Rod and Pin off, then make and weld on new ones, but a 2nd check meant that I could get away with straightening, cleaning and adding weld metal to bring back to good nick.

Made a new bushing for it-

 

Also had to make and harden 2 more Spacers for the Deck Brackets to take the wear/slop out of the Draught Bar's pivots (Draft Bar U.S and Swingletree in old English).

So a little collection of bits which sort out the Deck to Tractor issues-

 

 

The Spring n Brass collar with the Fibre washer are a 'cunning plan' mod to retain grease in the Blind hole in the Tractor Frame and keep the dirt out

Made new Rubber Bumpers for the Draught Bars and so all ready to fit-

Mmm, should have cropped that image a bit.

So (2nd) repaired Spindle now in the Deck, have parts to make a whole spare Spindle Ass'y once the odd size bearing arrives (and machine/harden a big spacer).

Found the 2 Trunnions are well worn, so making new ones of them at the mo' -

 

. Mark n Ewan's supplied decals are stuck on, so not far to go now, you'll be glad to hear !. 

  

[HeadExam 1,783]

Very nice work there, very nice. I wish I had a lathe and could learn to do this type of work, it would be invaluable in making spares

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

On 22/08/2017 at 9:36 PM, HeadExam said:

Very nice work there, very nice. I wish I had a lathe and could learn to do this type of work, it would be invaluable in making spares

 

Owning a Lathe is an awesome addition to a workshop, well worth the investment.

Mower Deck lift 'T' Bar permanently fitted now and the old repaired Lift Rod will be replaced with chain later. New Trunnions have taken out the wear slack and are now smooth and snug-

 

 

 

So after 3 Shredded Wheat, I managed to get the Deck down on the Deck and propped for the ceremonial fitting of the Blades  and torquing up to 65 ft lbs-

 

 

Now ready to fit. Weather beat me this morning and too wet to play around with fitting it for a trial spin up.