Hayter Osprey

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Amongst a few old-ish machines in some old outbuildings at a place I used to maintain the Grounds of,

we turned up this Hayter (has the Retailers Label of Penfolds of Arundel) .

Been dry stored for many years (25-ish) and should date from early seventies like most of the other machinery there.

Online searches have turned up no Manuals, other than what is filed at the M.E.R.L. 

 

Can't find any numbers on the 7hp Briggs yet, but have the number off the Ali Hayter serial plate on the Mower....11969 (pics taken in total darkness).

Condition is 'Little Used', so mechanically ok. Cosmetics questionable. Motor Clean, as is the Oil n Filter.

 

Anyone able to provide any info i.e. parts or Operator's Manuals would be appreciated.

 

Should have it running soon after a good clean and service, so I can cut 1/2 acre of rough scrub there. I'll post info on the other finds as and when (have to shore up the iffy Roof Timbers first).    

 

   

[pmackellow 2,738]

All I have on the Hayter Osprey is as below, sorry no manuals, top bit of second photo upside down as it flaps over the front, so thats how its printed...

 

The engine number should be on the air filter side of the cowling, the first two digits of the third set of numbers should give you the year...

[pmackellow 2,738]

For parts try John Cruse at The Mower Centre, 01323 842477

[meadowfield 1,900]

Tidy find....

[neil 524]

Nice find Richard,

What are your plans to do with it when she is running ?

[Tom 215]

Hi Richard,

 

Sorry I don't have any manuals for these but I am quite familiar with these machines, I had around 3 at one point but have since sold them all. They are good little machines and will handle rough grass fairly easily with sharp blades. If you need any help just give me a shout and I can do my best to help you!

 

Tom

[howardman 30]

I like the old hayters...built like tanks.....I have a hayter 26" with the rough-cut deck and roller seat/cylinder mower attachment. Your machine looks in good nick ...they are always handy for cutting rougher grass areas/high grass.

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Thanks,  ..... Paul for the 'Lit' on this one, also Guys for the offer of assistance if needed  . 

Neil, I'm going to get all the old machinery down there up and running in good condition to prepare the Grounds as the Estate has to go on the Market.

The elderly Lady who owned it passed away last August. 

The machinery will then be sold off to pay for other machinery maintenance. I'm going to be paying initially for the parts etc.

Good thing is, I know all this machinery is 'One Owner', little used from new and mostly dry stored, some of for 30years (it's where I got the '72' Raider 12 from) .. Needless to say it will be well prepped and clean when sold.

   

 

 

 

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Had a chance to check the underside of this beast the other day.

Checked and found it has a really good bright spark  .

Clean Disc, Blades are very good and just need freeing up.

No holes in the deck area, only surface rust and caked grass. Tyres good-

 

 

At the drive end, all look's good with a little Oil creep and grease weep around the joints.

Clutch Pivot is seized (frozen), so nothing serious hopefully.

Going to check all the Clutch/Drive parts over.

Being an older model, the Wheels are retained by Castellated Nuts 'n' Pins, so should be straight forward.

  

 

 

 

   

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Revisited this machine about 3 weeks ago when I had some time, wanted to get the Carb off for a service before trying to run it.

Found that someone had tried to get it running in my absence   . They laid it up on it's opposite side (Carb/Exhaust down) and I found the Carb, Filter and cylinder filled with Oil !!!.

Worse still,  the fuel they put in just ran straight into the Crankcase via the Breather pipe because there was something wrong with the Float or Valve.

All this has set me back a few weeks getting it sorted.

'Any Road Up' , I had to find and order a full Carb Rebuild kit and a new Air Filter. Cleaned it up and stripped the real dirty Carb to find that the Float had been eaten away probably by the 'Galvanic' process-

 

 

Never seen one this bad, so I had to find one of those as well !.

So I'm now back to where I started, but now have a nice clean rebuilt Large Flo-Jet Briggs Carb-

 

 

 

Doing the Clutch, Drive and Blades next week and a test cut hopefully. then It' s clean up the framework etc. 

Should be a good machine when done.

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Had a chance to do more on this monster yesterday and thought I'd keep up the progress on it as this thread gets picked up on a Google search for this Model and there is virtually zero information on it anywhere.  This is actually a 1980 model, not an early 70s I believed it to be.

 

Anyway, Pulled all the Clutch/Drive Unit out as it was seized. Brought the plates back with me to check and clean up. Condition is very good and little used, but just a very little rust pitting or discolouration from non use on the faces- 

 

 

Original Friction Material is still well bonded and virtually unworn, bronze bushings are good.

I'm impressed with the size and quality of these Heavy Duty parts and appear to be able to cope with a lot of hard work.  

 

 

Roller chain is perfect and left to soak over night and so will be cleaning and reassembling the underside today.

 

 

 

 

[meadowfield 1,900]

looking good Richard

[Wristpin 400]

Good old plodders in their day. Sold serviced and rebuilt dozens until they were killed off by the volumes not warranting re-engineering to meet OPC requirements.

Three points to watch. If the clutch need adjustment start by eliminating any axle end float which, if not attended to, "absorbs" clutch movement and leads to either good drive but creep on disengagement  or clean disengagement and poor drive. Elimination of end float best achieved by dismantling the clutch, pulling the rh wheel, hub and the axle out and inserting shim 4913 between the hub and the axle bearing. With the axle back in and the circlip in place there should not be room for another shim.

The grease nipple in the middle of the rear axle carrier is the one that grabs the eye but over entheusiastic greasing will contaminate the clutch.

Hayter went through a period of fitting a sealed for life transmission identified by a female hex socket  plug . If these have leaked and run short of lubricant the chances are that the box is shot. They were classed as "non serviceable".

This may be of interest,

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9pa2ow4nz4dixdn/Hayter%20Osprey%20and%2021%200001.pdf

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0puak77v28dnjpl/Hayter%2021%20%26%20Osprey%20clutch%20adj20001.pdf

 

sorry it's all a bit muddled orientation wise but it's not scanner friendly!

Edited June 25, 2014 by Wristpin

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Thanks very much for the Links Wristpin , much appreciated .

I read through them after I got back from reassembling it and from what I read, I got most of it right, just need to align the Clutch pressure Arm a tad more to get it spot-on parallel with the Plates when engaged........it was way out and lots of slack with max adjustment on the cable.

Cable re-routed a better way and now functioning properly with good engagement and positive disengagement.

Main Axle had not been over greased either  

 

I did not notice any 'End Float' on the axle, may be because it has not had a lot of use.

Also not sure if Service Bulletin Instruction applies, as the Machine number on the plate is 11969 and the Bulletin refers to units after number 12401 ?.

More curiously is that the Bulletin is dated 24 Oct 1975 and I have a 1980 date on the 7hp Briggs fitted to it.....maybe they had to replace the Engine at some point and the machine is actually earlier 70s like most of the other machines there?. I like these intriguing little discoveries, as they assist in I.D. ing. Will have to check further.

I know much of the machinery there was regularly maintained and serviced by Dealers from what the owner told me and judging by the amount of old Labels tied to the machines.

 

Had some bad luck though!. Last job of reassembly was fitting the Muffler after cleaning the oil out of it and the last bolt sheared in the head before it got to even 90 inch lbs   . My fault I suppose, as I should have got new ones irrespectively, If you consider that it was only removed due to negligence of another. Have to deal with that next week now  .

 

 

       

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Bit of a delay with some closing posts on this little project, mainly because I have not had time to get down to finish it.

Back in early July, I obtained a full Muffler Kit to replace the old one, mainly due to the sheared Bolt, but I would've had to pay nearly the same for 2 bolts as the whole Kit !!.

The broken stud came out real easy and I fitted it all up ready to go-

 

.

Rear Wheels looked real tatty, so I pulled them to get Sandblasted, primed and repainted. Front Wheels only had bearings cleaned out and re-greased. 

Also wanted to clean off and protect the underside while it was bone dry, so I liberally coated it with old Oil and let the surplus drain off for a while (all of August). All the metal is solid and still some original paint under there-

 

 

Put the Oil in and fuelled up, took about 3 pulls then burst into life after who knows how long  .

A little Carb tweaking after warm up and then took it for a spin to check the governor response in tall grass,,,, all good and engine is smooth and powerful.

Did about 200 metres of field boundary path cutting and had to call it a day.

Real happy with it and no more strenuous to use than the 1971 JD 624E Tiller I rescued from there a few years ago (I'll get some images of that).

    

         

[Stormin 4,458]

Well done Richard. Another lives to mow again.

[rog8811 47]

As this is the only thread I can find with this mower I will put this here, I didn't take a photo before I started but this mower was still in use last year, with this deck made of rust held together with wire!

 

 

The only reason it was not used this season was that it was pulled and pulled until the recoil spring came off.  My son dropped it off for me as he knows I cannot resist a free engine.

 

 

I had to take it apart before Mrs Rog came home from work so that  I could hide it 

A little investigation after reattaching the spring so that the recoil works reveals no spark , I am happy to spend a few quid on a coil.

So at last the question, does anyone know the engine on this well enough to say "get this coil" or is there somewhere on the forum to look it up please?

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Surprised to see this old thread resurrected, but obviously served it's purpose as a reference as well. 

 

But of a challenge Rog, trying to ID the engine in that example. The Shroud look's like it has been replaced, along with the rewind starter.

 

Problem is that the Engine numbers are stamped on the side of the (non original) Shroud. 

Engines in these machines of this age (70s), I believe were either 5 or 7 hp.

I would need more/better images of the engine with any numbers you find. I have a workshop Manual that covers all Briggs up to 1982.

 

Before the No Spark issue is further investigated, check you are trying to start it with the Throttle at mid position.

There is a 'Kill System' that cuts the ignition at 'Throttle Closed' position. 

Note also that if the machine is laid on it's (carburettor) side, the Crankcase Oil will flow into the Carb and subsequently the upper cylinder/Exhaust and Air Filter via  the 'Breather'.

 I can't be sure yet, but I don't think it has the 'Magna- Matic' system.

Suspect though, it may possibly have and just need a good clean and service of the ignition system, i.e. points, condenser and Armature Air Gap checked.

[Wristpin 400]

The Osprey was 7hp and the Twenty One 5hp. They both used the same back end with different engines and front shroud / blade assemblies. There was even a two stroke Osprey that used a big JLO lump.

On the Briggs engined machines I believe that the MagnaMatic system was limited to the cast iron block engines and should not to be confused with the Magnetron system that was introduced around 1979. Early or converted magnetron setups have a clear or white piggy back unit clipped between the left leg of the coil armature and the coil itself . Later units had the magnetron unit encapsulated into the coil in a similar position,The simplest way to check whether you have magnetron ( electronic) or points ignition is to remove the blower housing ( engine shroud) and look at the coil. If there is no module or lump on the coil there will be two wires disappearing under the flywheel and terminating at the combined points and condenser under a shiny cover out of sight under the flywheel.

[rog8811 47]

 

Problem is that the Engine numbers are stamped on the side of the (non original) Shroud. 

Engines in these machines of this age (70s), I believe were either 5 or 7 hp.

I would need more/better images of the engine with any numbers you find. I have a workshop Manual that covers all Briggs up to 1982.

 

I think you are right, there is no sign of a number on the shroud so not the original.

 

 

Before the No Spark issue is further investigated, check you are trying to start it with the Throttle at mid position. 

 

 

I looked at that, the kill system has been altered to the point where I am pretty sure it will not work, I will sort out a workround on that.

 

 

 I can't be sure yet, but I don't think it has the 'Magna- Matic' system.

Suspect though, it may possibly have and just need a good clean and service of the ignition system, i.e. points, condenser and Armature Air Gap checke

You have it there, it has the wires going off under the flywheel I will whip it off and have a look at the points etc.

 

Thanks for the pointers

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Ok, If it is an Osprey and 7hp, then I can offer you some help. The Engine Model, Spec and Serial nbrs on the Engine (1980) in my original Thread is 170702 - 5638-01. 

If you want to check further, then just count the number of Cylinder Head Bolts. If you have 9,  then it should be 17cu inch 7hp............... A 5hp (14 cu in) engine has 8.

 

I have PDF Files of both the Illustrated Parts Manual and User Manual that I can post here or send. Or, you can enter the numbers into the Briggs and Stratton Website Manuals section and download your own.

The User Manual has most of the common service procedures and Data you'll need. 

Any other bits you need, I can check my Manual for you. 

[rog8811 47]

@ Anglo Traction  Thanks for the offer, I will be in touch if I get into trouble.... (Every time I see your avatar I think I must look out some pictures of my traction engine.....)

[S1g 579]

Perhaps I shouldn't but when ever I have a Briggs of this engine playing up I usually obtain a later scrap one of similar size etc and simply cut the points out and bolt the coil with the built in electronic unit in place and never have any further trouble with it.

[rog8811 47]

 

 

with the built in electronic unit in place and never have any further trouble with it

I did wonder about that, do the magnets on the flywheel operate correctly as, if I understand it correctly, it is the change in magnetic field that triggers the spark.

(I will still get the flywheel off for a look first).

[S1g 579]

I did wonder about that, do the magnets on the flywheel operate correctly as, if I understand it correctly, it is the change in magnetic field that triggers the spark.

(I will still get the flywheel off for a look first).

Has allways worked for me, the flywheels are slightly different, but so long as you set the air gap right(use a spark plug box or cereal packet) then it's fit and forget, I usually pick up scrap mowers for around a fiver at sales to use as a doner.