A Mystery Roaring Twenties Refurb.......hopefully!

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

2nd Shaft was/is a headache. Lots of problems and have had to do the best I can. The boss that the 52t Sprocket is riveted to is fixed to the shaft by a pin.

This was sheared in 2 places, so I had to remove the old pieces and make a new one.

Strangely, it was nearer to 6mm than 1/4, so I reamed it to 6mm and made a new pin from silver steel and partly hardened.

Bearings were a mess inside as with the other ones-

 

 

This one has a cracked inner race, maybe even from when it was first fitted? -

 

 

Took an age to clean and flush these out until clean, but when  packed with LM grease, they ran quite smoothly considering and they will have to do.

Rpm for this shaft is about 750 max. Had quite a wobble in the sprocket, so I tried to straighten it out and got it down to about 1mm  deflection.

Clamped it to a 1 inch thick steel plate and used gentle leverage-

 

 

 

 Finished shaft with just a bit of painting to do-

 

 

 

Final job on the Villiers Clutch was to replace the worn felt seal shown in 6th image bottom left in post #16. Thought I'd have trouble, but got the old one out.

Found an identical sized vintage seal in my spares bits, but was too thick, so I had to slice it. Shown fitted with the old one and cut off remnant-

 

 

 

The seal protects the outer cup ball race, which after cleaning and greasing, runs real smoothly  .

So clutch is ready for assembly now, when I've sorted the cable and routing.

 

The Exhaust silencer/muffler was next. Surprisingly, I managed to undo the remnants of the nut that holds the end plates on and dismantled it-

 

 

 

Wanted to to check it over before putting it near any media blasting. Shame one end cap is captive, as I wanted to remove it.

This end cap was nickel plated originally and suffered more from the elements than the other.

After an initial clean up, loads of little perforations appeared in the neck between the flange and cannister, but the welded areas are strong.

 

I reckoned I could repair this with a new plate wrapped around the neck and weld around the strong points.

I've cut and fitted the plate clamped tight with a Jubilee Clip initially for tacking it down. further joint cleaning to do first.

Got to practice with thin plate, as I'm not skilled in general arc/stick welding practices -

 

 

The cannister part is still sound with no holes or thin areas. It's a rolled sheet and riveted with a seam plate inside.

In addition to sealing the inside, I'm also going to run a seam along the end joint to avoid it blowing.... can be seen to the right of this image-

 

   

 

After this, it will be time for frame cleaning and repairs, before I can fit the engine and see if it will start/run..................tbc 

 

 

[Stormin 4,458]

Come on Richard hurry up. I'm itching to see what it is. Mower at a guess.

[Alan 1,273]

6 hours ago, Stormin said:

Come on Richard hurry up. I'm itching to see what it is. Mower at a guess.

You can't hurry a perfectionist Norm.  Just be patient and wait.  Or to put it another way,  GET a MOVE ON Richard.

[Rayp 46]

Hi Richard,

I just wondered if you had ever tried deox-c on small rusted parts like the silencer/muffler.  I've found it is brilliant for converting rust even inside inaccessible parts and interior seams.

Ray

[Cub Cadet 613]

On 3/13/2019 at 9:41 AM, Rayp said:

Hi Richard,

I just wondered if you had ever tried deox-c on small rusted parts like the silencer/muffler.  I've found it is brilliant for converting rust even inside inaccessible parts and interior seams.

Ray

 

I have used deox-c and it was brilliant, I then found out it is actually just citric acid and its much cheaper to just buy a bag of this online. 

 

 

Great work Richard!

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

On 3/13/2019 at 9:41 AM, Rayp said:

Hi Richard,

I just wondered if you had ever tried deox-c on small rusted parts like the silencer/muffler.  I've found it is brilliant for converting rust even inside inaccessible parts and interior seams. Ray

 

Hi Ray, Afraid I never heard of it . A bit ignorant of the various products floating around these days. I'm rather suspicious of the old 'Snake Oil' type claims for them, but in reality they turn out to be basic compounds or chemicals that you can buy and apply for very little. That stuff is not cheap.

I tend to be content with processes that may take longer, but cost very little. Electrolysis for example.

On 3/19/2019 at 12:07 PM, Cub Cadet said:

 

I have used deox-c and it was brilliant, I then found out it is actually just citric acid and its much cheaper to just buy a bag of this online.

 

A good example Ewan. just a few other different ingredients so they can claim it's their own unique concoction, as you say a bag of citric is obtainable from places like Wilko's .

I admit to using a rust converter (trustan and kurust) if I can't get it all off.

 

The Exhaust is done. Surprised myself after patiently tacking and building weld bridges and joining up using 1.6mm rods. Very few spots made it through the thin wall of the neck-

 

 

Had to break the old spring washer from the captive end cover and replace it with a wide thick copper washer cut and opened to fit onto the rod, then silver soldered the joint.

Didn't need to add a seam of weld on the riveted joint, it's good and gas tight. finished it with several coats of BBQ paint.

Rubbed it down in between coats and then finally burning it clean with a gas torch to dull red heat-

 

It will do and should last long time !.

Not much progress, as still making odd bits not worth mentioning and prepping for paint. The all important original seat actually cleaned up well.

I was unsure how it would turn out with the level of corrosion. It still had traces of paint and or primer which could be grey primer and white top coat.
Plan is for a light grey top coat until it can be confirmed what colour it was. Very few of these machines still around-

 

 

Hopefully will make significant assembly progress over the next week.

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

    

[Stormin 4,458]

  A seat! Now it is getting interesting as to what it is. I do have a couple of ideas.

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Not long now Norm. Ailments have now delayed my progress. Only managed a few bits to date.

Cooling Fan was distorted, damaged and pretty corroded (see pic 3 of my very first Topic post). After cleaning and straightening, I balanced it up by filing the outer edges.

Then coats of primer, rubbing down in between them. After the first coat-

 

 

The Throttle controls (and cables) on the machine were beyond saving and scrapped. I had to find a replacement.

Not the best of condition, but initial clean up found it and the damage repairable- 

 

 

Plating was long gone, so had a coat of paint applied. The black bakelite type plastic lever ends were repaired using original Araldite mixed with lamp black.

Final coat of Cellulose lacquer. Other parts were either original plating, or polished lacquered steel and body correctly painted black enamel-

 

 

Machine had a 7/16" whitworth square nut fitted where it should have a hex nut, so I had to find and machine/file one down to similar shape and size-

 

 

 

The finished article and painted fan will show up in the first pics of the refurbed machine in a week or two ............tbc

[Stormin 4,458]

 A week or two. Oh come on Richard.

[fordsonmajortom 4]

They look like Senspray throttle controls.

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

On 3/31/2019 at 8:15 PM, Stormin said:

 A week or two. Oh come on Richard.

 

Oh all right,...... 3 weeks!   .... Don't do deadlines anymore since I retired.

52 minutes ago, fordsonmajortom said:

They look like Senspray throttle controls.

 

Correct Michael!. Still a lot to sort out, but ordered the copper fuel pipe today. The Carb was mentioned in this topic a while back-

       Senspray 

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Dragging behind schedule recently, but have nearly finished several parts which should all come together next week for a more bulky update and to probably reveal the ID of it.

Just to come back to the carb for the near impossible easy repair, I've repeated an image here that is in the link of the previous post to save any toggling for comparison.

I was presented with this dented mushroom Air inlet cover. Originally this was a bright shiny nickel plated cover, but as can be seen, the old 'anger scars' and corrosion is severe-

   

 

I can't call it a filter, as there is no mesh. It is not possible to get all the dents out. I did consider (briefly) taking the old outer cover off and

spinning up and soldering on a nickel silver one.

This rear view will show you the lack of filtration and I will probably spring a strip of oiled scouring pad in to cover the holes-

 

 

And the front, which I was not happy with,  where just filling and painting would actually be more work than the idea I had to fix this much quicker. 

I came up with this and now only requires a coat of lacquer after cleaning up the outer edge -

 

The Cooling fan shroud is of thin cast aluminium and has had a bad hit low down at the front, snapped a piece off and bent everything, also one wrong size nut fitted-

 

 

Having to make additional spacers so that the bolts do not crush (again) the Ali plate when tightened.

I'm carefully heating parts to ease the stresses before straightening. I'm using soap to indicate the temperature and it's going well, should be seen fitted next week.

Clutch cable is done but need to trim to length on the machine. Throttle cable (outer Bowdens) need to be replaced (tricky). Seat is finished ready to fit.

Fuel pipe is a challenge, as the two different tapered nipples were originally brazed to the old pipe, so I had to cut off the big one and bore out to fit on the new pipe.

The smaller one I scrapped and turned/machined up a new one and both will be soldered on this time .

 

Having problems with the final hurdle, namely the drive chains. These must be replaced, the originals were just welded together with rust, as they

were removed and left on the seat  over 80 years ago, Spec is unobtainable now?, no sign of any old stock, so may have to rob from a scrap/donor machine If

I can find one?.

    

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Stormin 4,458]

6 hours ago, Anglo Traction said:

I came up with this and now only requires a coat of lacquer after cleaning up the outer edge -

 

    If that's the original, what have you done to get it looking like that?

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

The answer is 'Balls' Norm!  ....................................Yes the item is the original, but I have added the dome to it.

 

Back around Xmas, I observed some Kiddies Ball shaped tins that contained chocolate of some kind. Managed to get hold of a couple and found one without any significant damage. Measured pretty close to the radius, so went for cutting a slice off for a test.

First job was to clean off the paint/ink to see what the finish was to the steel (top left).

I then had to polish it and measured the amount needed to slice off for a sample and what method to slice it off with ( bottom left)-

 

 

First go was 3/64"(1.2mm) short, so went for it on the good cleaned off section - 

 

 

Cleaned up and tinned with solder, it was soldered to the original, which was not easy as had to use passive resin flux, but went ok.

Had a good coat of fuel proof lacquer and settled for an old small cafetiere s/s gauze filter cut to fit as a dust collector. All done and will go nicely with the now very tidy Carb.

Regards     

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

Well, those of you who have been watching this have seen glimpses of bits that don't really mean much.

So I have decided to let you know what this thing is, despite having a fair way to go before (if) any mechanical life can be breathed into it.

It's 90% there, but still have the drive chain hurdle to overcome. So bearing in mind that it's nothing really spectacular, it is uncommon. This is what it is -

This ad is from the Tatler Magazine of Aug 1922. I have other images, but are copyrighted and not for public use.

Designed to provide assisted (Ride-on) power to existing, manually pushed lawnmowers at the time.

So it can be called the first known British Ride-on that was available to the average domestic household. Earlier large private Estate/Municiple  ride-ons were available.

They were built by Ransomes, Sims & Jefferies for the MP Co.

At the start of this Topic, I mentioned the condition and it's neglected existence, albeit virtually complete. This is what it looked like-

 

 

 

Not my pics, but shows it was in a bad state.

It's debatable whether to replace some damaged/missing parts like the (left) lower end section of the Fan cover-

 

 

I suppose it is really part of it's existence, hard knocks 'n' all.

What I have found strange, is the varying immunity of certain sections to corrosion. Some very thin metal sheet parts are hardly eroded, but heavier, thicker spring steels

are heavily pitted?. All exposed to the same levels of weather. Suppose it's lucky to be able to save/use most of it.

 

Today, I've made up the Cables for Carb controls. Tricky job and I decided to set it up in a way that would be easier to manage.

Bolted the Carb to my Lathe tail stock barrel and the Levers to a bar in the Chuck-

       

  

 

 The inner cables were different length from a donor source and I had make them both the same length and produce new outer bowden cables.

Lots of careful measuring, as the 1926 Carb manual says never dismantle the Lever and cables !!. I had no choice. 

So with a lot of cleaning to get the solder to take on the shortened inner cable, all the ends soldered up and the bits fitted correctly-

 

 

And relieved to say everything operates/adjusts correctly -

 

 

Most of the control levers were in a bad state as mentioned way back and showed the end result, but here are a few of what they were like-

 

    

 

...... the  Counter shaft -

 

 

So here is what it looked like as assembly progressed-

 

 

And to date-

 

 

 

  

 

If I can get it running, it will be one of only a handful of working examples in collector's hands. Hope to have more updates soon

 

 

 

 

 

    

 

 

    

 

   

[Stormin 4,458]

 That's one beautiful looking piece of machinery.   

 

 Here's hoping you can get it running, then all you'll need is a period mower to push.

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

On 4/25/2019 at 10:16 PM, Stormin said:

 That's one beautiful looking piece of machinery.       Here's hoping you can get it running, then all you'll need is a period mower to push.

 

I am inclined to agree about it's appearance Norm. I feel it has that simple 'Bolty' look about it. Plus the combination of the colours and bright parts.

I've been struggling with progress, as I hit a wall trying to obtain some drive chain which is only used on a few vintage machines and motorcycles.

Zero response from two attempts over the last week, then tried another this afternoon where I got an almost immediate and positive reply.

 

So I'm over my last hurdle of finding parts hopefully, but I think I will have to make another obsolete part for the engine, not happy yet?.

 

Have made a little progress and assembled the Clutch/cable/lever, but had a problem with the lock screw gripping the cable tight enough in the lever.

Lot of tension in the clutch spring to overcome, so I've made a temporary lockscrew with a socket head to be able to tighten it better-

 

  -

 

 

Decided on the fuel pipe routing, keeping it within the frame and shortest distance. Original route can be seen in the 'as found' pics.

Just the Carb end to fix and solder, as this pic was taken when a trial fit was made, the coil position etc is now tidier -

 

 

As for finding a mower to attach it to, well it did come with the original mower it used to push back in the 1920s and here is a pic of how it attaches-

 

 

One or two examples can be seen around the show circuits affixed to a mower, or like this example (off the Web) where an axle from a different machine has been adapted to fit-

 

 

Would be nice to find a set of similar wheels to make an axle up for this one I'm working on. When it's fitted to a mower, the turning circle is enormous.

Looking forward to chain delivery.

 

    

[Stormin 4,458]

 

59 minutes ago, Anglo Traction said:

 

 

  I rather like that, Richard.

 

  I'm sure if you can't find a set of wheels, carriage or cart, a man of your capabilities can make some.

 

[Alan 1,273]

Very nice Richard.   Now we know what you have keeping secret all this time. 

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

On 5/10/2019 at 6:40 PM, Stormin said:

  I'm sure if you can't find a set of wheels, carriage or cart, a man of your capabilities can make some.

 

A bit more than I could deal with without finding more large tooling like bending rolls and a larger welder Norm. A long search for the correct size may be the only way.

I reckon sorting the  mower will be quicker.

 

On 5/10/2019 at 8:26 PM, Alan said:

Very nice Richard.   Now we know what you have keeping secret all this time. 

 

Not sure if it was worth the wait for people, but hope it is seen for what it's worth. 

 

An overdue update which has established the drive chain dilemma and now has at least linked the Counter Shaft to the engine, so it can be turned over with the handle.

Also, I mentioned I was not happy with the badly worn split bushing that holds the Armature plate on the engine's crankshaft bushing.

Marathon job for me, machining it from  40mm solid EN8 bar. Pressed out the old one-

 

 

 

Careful measuring so the new one fits as well as the old one and the bore finished undersize (0.9970") to fit the crank bushing with an interference fit-

 

  

 

Loads of swarf later, moved it to the Mill still in the chuck to put the first slit in-

 

 

 

Could not see why the slit needed to be as wide as the original, so kept it 1/32" (.8mm) and back on the Lathe for parting off-

 

I could then fit it in a machine vise for the second slit and pressed it back into the plate-

 

 

I bottled out in the end and replaced the HT Coil - Points wire just to be sure, so was now confident that it was as good as I could get it Mag- wise.

The Armature Plate went back onto the engine as planned, a good interference fit with zero movement on the bushing before tightening the securing screw.

Final check/clean and the flywheel replaced to set the points gap and timing and the anxiety was building.

 

I knew the magnets were reasonable and had 'Keepers' fitted while work was done. So had no excuses left and started to check for a spark.

First few cranks of the handle produced nothing, then next turns, spotted a few faint, inconsistent sparks. I knew the mag needed to be re-energised and could take a while.

That was last week. Today, I set to it again and more cranking and checking. Finally, the sparks were more consistent and brighter, but not sure if strong enough.

Went for it and primed the cylinder with some petroil, shoved the original Spark plug in. Cranked it up with the De-comp open, then closed it and it fired up briefly !!!.

So after over 80 years, the old Villiers has a pulse and a brief mechanical heartbeat. Next week, I'll hope to run it for longer and get some heat into it.

It will be a while before I can run/drive it....nothing to hook it up to yet.  

      

 

 

 

[Stormin 4,458]

 Well done Richard. It'll soon be purring like a kitten. As near as a two stroke sounds to a kitten anyway.

[Wristpin 400]

A great thread and wonderful workmanship . Ignition - unless I’ve missed it, there’s no mention of the condenser, has it been changed? Judging from the number of faulty / weak condensers that I change on not quite so old engines, it may be worth a punt.

[Anglo Traction 1,016]

13 hours ago, Wristpin said:

A great thread and wonderful workmanship . Ignition - unless I’ve missed it, there’s no mention of the condenser, has it been changed? Judging from the number of faulty / weak condensers that I change on not quite so old engines, it may be worth a punt.

 

Thanks, and yes I did briefly mention the condenser situation in post #14 on page one. 

I agree with you on the later canister (m1750 type) versions regarding their reliability/inconsistency. If this engine had that style, I would have replaced it irrespectively.. 

 

I don't have a pic of the back of the brass condenser/points box, but it is solidly filled.

The condenser, being the original patented design of 1921 is constructed using Mica sheets in between the aluminium plates (according to the 2 Authors of the books I have).

On this version, the whole unit is fitted into the box and then flooded with molten bitumen, so it's hermetically sealed within.

Modern Villiers condensers (mid 30s onwards-ish) were constructed using waxed paper as an interleaved insulator and these have a tendency to break down quicker (as per the books).

 

I decided to give the original one the opportunity to prove itself in it's quality/reliability based on the condition of the original points faces (platinum), where there was only the slightest sign of 'arc pitting' (coil/condenser side) and tiny peak on the earth/ground side, which could indicate a possible slight over capacitance when it was last running.

There are statements in the books that say these old versions rarely fail  . I'll know where to look if a problem shows up.

The progressive condition of the spark was consistent using several spark plugs (non resistor).

So with a few backups, I'm going to run it initially on the original plug (Champion 8 com).

The worn Points Heel was likely to be a possible problem, but on assembly, the clearance/lift was way more than enough to set the points gap . 

 

On 6/5/2019 at 10:58 PM, Stormin said:

 Well done Richard. It'll soon be purring like a kitten. As near as a two stroke sounds to a kitten anyway.

 

Thanks Norm. For the few revs it's done so far, it seems to have a bit of a 'bark' to the exhaust note.

I'm expecting this to run at around 1500-1750 rpm, so a sound like the old vintage Bikes of the age and a bit noisier .  

[nigel 1,876]

On eBay 22”

[Wristpin 400]

Yes, found the original reference to the condenser. Certainly an interesting form of construction that would seem to have stood the test of time.