factory

The engine arrived this afternoon, earlier than expected. After a quick look over I’m starting Tom thing this engine has been used very little, if at all. It looks to be all there. The governed system is interesting. Wish I had a gas tank for it... here are some photos, enjoy.
 
Clint

From your description it sounds exactly the same as the Type 115 engine I have in my collection (pictures below), earlier style carb (no primer button), no tank, also no clue as to the original use.
 
Assuming it hasn't already been done, it will likely need a carb clean & rebuild, Webhead or Wallfish on here have new diaphragms for these, the original crumbly air filter foam should be removed/replaced too.
The original spark plug would have been a Champion UY6, if the cylinder has 10mm plug thread. Later engines used a 14mm thread spark plug.
 
David
 

Thanks David
 
I put the "bitsa" engine as far together as I could on Friday and thats there now, plus a Turbair related box of chemical (empty) plus another Tarpen mini engine advert...
 
 

Your O&R display looks very nice in the new shed, I keep meaning to build one myself as I'm running out of space, but never seem to get round to it.
 
David

Relevant literature now in place by the O&R shelves...
 

Hello,
 
I have a nice Tiny Tiger for sale.  Comes with carrying case, operating instructions and converter.  Had  a new diaphragm put in, cleaned the carb and it was running good a year ago.  Too much stuff in my possession and looking to get rid of a few things.  Would like to see it go to a good home and be appreciated.  Gas tank does weep ever so slightly.  I am no expert on these but I think it is in really nice overall shape.  I will not give it away, but will accept what I believe to be a fair offer.  Perhaps someone on this forum could give me the going value of these little gems.  I live in northeast Iowa and I will be traveling to St.Louis next week if that helps anyone for delivery.  I also travel for work regularly throughout Iowa and Minneapolis.  Thanks for your interest.

Nice find, those O&R powered Tarpen powerheads are quite hard to find.
 
David

All the way to the Midlands today to pick this up, a neat Tarpen hedge trimmer with O&R power
 
Another useful addition to the collection

Another excellent display Paul.
 
There was a fairly rare Petro Chug-A-Drill at the Stourport vintage steam rally last weekend, I didn't go myself but there is a picture on flickr here;
 
 
David

Cracking display David
 
Here's my slightly different (from the one above) display at the Museum of Power at Langford last weekend...
 

Very nice display as usual.
 
Here are a couple of pictures of a small selection of my O&R's that I displayed at the 1000 engine rally last month, the Tarpen rotary cultivator attachment was bought from one of the stalls there.
 
David
 

Here is some data for the other two wires (from my 1993 RS components catalogue, I found nothing online & it seems to be discontinued), apparently this alarm can do nine different tones depending how the green/yellow wires are connected.
 
David
 

Had this little alarm lying around at the back of the bench for some years. It was in a little hand held box with a push button. Carol's mother who had Parkinsons and was wheelchair bound and couldn't really speak used it to attract Carol's father's attention. I'd no idea what I was going to use it for, until yesterday.
 It is now fitted under the bonnet of the Sears/Roper.
 

 

 
Link to video.Takes a couple of minutes.      P1020339.MP4
 
Only works when ignition on, but I may wire it up to a micro switch under the seat.

Last weekend we organised a Horticultural display at the Ardingly Smallholders Show in West Sussex.
 
This is our O&R display at the show, the whole collection apart from the Allman wheeled sprayer...
 
 

Hi Richard,
 
Thanks for that link, 1966 & 1HP makes more sense, the earliest O&R parts list I have mentioning the compact III (1HP) is dated November 1965, that doesn't imply that they didn't introduce it earlier that year of course.
The information in the link seems mostly fine, I will see if I can find any more reference to the 16:1 ratio in any of my original O&R literature, I just checked a few yesterday.
One thing I don't agree on in the link is the last comment " Used O & R model airplane engine " I think it should really say something like 'used O&R compact industrial engine' as the O&R Compact was developed as an industrial engine (although model makers did & still do use them for other things), here is something I found from an archive document relating to that;
 

 
I remembered recently buying a parts list dated Apr 1964, hopefully this scan from it helps better with the (early) original ratios, I will edit the calculated 10.67:1 ratio to 11:1 in yesterday's post. Of course modern oils allow higher ratio to be used, as has already been said;
 

 
David

That is a very nice condition later Tiny Tiger with the larger gas/fuel tank.
I will check the manual for mine, but I wouldn't recommend using a 350W load continuously, something like a 250W maximum load for continuous use would be better to avoid damage (which is what the early ones were rated for).
Those starters can be tricky to repair till you get used to fixing them.
 
David

Here is the little tiger I believe it’s a later mode type 219 350w shroud says compact 3 bought a few new diaphragms from a member on here carb thread was Awsome had to do all of it and went off without a hitch! String thing was a bit tricky but a few tries got it done;) once I get this oil thing figured I’ll start it and make a video!:) I ordered some synthetic and some 30wt I’ll try them both and see thanks again love the input!

I'm not sure where you found that information but there were no 1HP O&R engines in the early 1960's (only 3/4HP) and the only mention of a 16:1 ratio is for the much later 1970's 1.6HP Model 20A engine, there seems to be a lot of incorrect information around for these engines.
 
Here are some old fuel/oil mix ratios from the various O&R manuals & literature I have, the ratio changed over the years;
1961 & 1962: 3/4 pint #30 SAE oil per gallon (11:1 ratio), these early compact engines where rated at 3/4HP.
1963: 1/3 pint #30 SAE heavy duty oil per gallon (24:1 ratio), again only 3/4HP compact engines available then.
1966: 1/3 pint #30 SAE heavy duty oil per gallon (24:1 ratio), for all 3/4HP, 0.85HP, 1HP compact engines.
 
From the NIAE test report (published 1964), "the petrol/oil mixture has been changed to 24 parts petrol to 1 part oil and the recommended grade of oil is heavy duty M.S. type SAE 30" (was 3/4 pint to 1 gallon when they did the testing in Jan-May 1963) many design changes were made following this report.
 
There was also a mention of chrome cylinder linings, here is the information I have for some of the O&R engines;
1963: Early compact engines had a steel sleeve cylinder with chrome piston rings (earlier information from 1960 doesn't mention the rings being chromed)
1975: Model 13B engine (1HP) has steel cylinder liner with special alloy cast iron rings, and to confuse things more the brochure (undated) for the newer Model 20A engine (1.6HP) gives a 16:1 fuel/oil ratio using either SAE 30AD or MS motor oil, these engines had a chromed cylinder bore.
 
Forum recommendation for fuel/oil mix ratio;
We have been recommending a 32:1 fuel/oil mix on the forum for using modern 2-stroke oils, I have been using a high quality mineral based 2-stroke oil from Stihl, another forum user had problems with the synthetic version of 2-stroke oil from Stihl, see this thread;
 
Obviously you may need to experiment to find something suitable that is available where you are, but I do not recommend oils sold by petrol stations for use with scooters (tried some of that in a Villiers engine many years ago, it was far to smoky), the best stores to try and find something suitable would be a local store that sells & repair garden or ground maintenance equipment, chainsaws etc.
 
Note the all the O&R compact engines & the newer Model 20A have seals made from rubber and also on earlier production engines they used plastic cages for the bearings, these can be damaged by certain additives in some types of fuel/oil.
 
Also if you intend to store the engine for any long period it's recommended to drain all fuel and to put some oil down the spark-plug hole, pull the starter a few times to coat the cylinder & piston and leaving the piston blocking the exhaust ports.
 
I must admit I don’t know if the fuel sold in the UK has ethanol in it, I guess that is something else to look out for which may or may not have harmful additives.
 
David
 
 

I forgot to add that you should check out the carb repair thread if you haven't already and it's a good idea to clean out any old crumbly filter foam from the air filter housing, it can damage the engine if any of it gets sucked in.
 
David

I'm not sure where you found that information but there were no 1HP O&R engines in the early 1960's (only 3/4HP) and the only mention of a 16:1 ratio is for the much later 1970's 1.6HP Model 20A engine, there seems to be a lot of incorrect information around for these engines.
 
Here are some old fuel/oil mix ratios from the various O&R manuals & literature I have, the ratio changed over the years;
1961 & 1962: 3/4 pint #30 SAE oil per gallon (11:1 ratio), these early compact engines where rated at 3/4HP.
1963: 1/3 pint #30 SAE heavy duty oil per gallon (24:1 ratio), again only 3/4HP compact engines available then.
1966: 1/3 pint #30 SAE heavy duty oil per gallon (24:1 ratio), for all 3/4HP, 0.85HP, 1HP compact engines.
 
From the NIAE test report (published 1964), "the petrol/oil mixture has been changed to 24 parts petrol to 1 part oil and the recommended grade of oil is heavy duty M.S. type SAE 30" (was 3/4 pint to 1 gallon when they did the testing in Jan-May 1963) many design changes were made following this report.
 
There was also a mention of chrome cylinder linings, here is the information I have for some of the O&R engines;
1963: Early compact engines had a steel sleeve cylinder with chrome piston rings (earlier information from 1960 doesn't mention the rings being chromed)
1975: Model 13B engine (1HP) has steel cylinder liner with special alloy cast iron rings, and to confuse things more the brochure (undated) for the newer Model 20A engine (1.6HP) gives a 16:1 fuel/oil ratio using either SAE 30AD or MS motor oil, these engines had a chromed cylinder bore.
 
Forum recommendation for fuel/oil mix ratio;
We have been recommending a 32:1 fuel/oil mix on the forum for using modern 2-stroke oils, I have been using a high quality mineral based 2-stroke oil from Stihl, another forum user had problems with the synthetic version of 2-stroke oil from Stihl, see this thread;
 
Obviously you may need to experiment to find something suitable that is available where you are, but I do not recommend oils sold by petrol stations for use with scooters (tried some of that in a Villiers engine many years ago, it was far to smoky), the best stores to try and find something suitable would be a local store that sells & repair garden or ground maintenance equipment, chainsaws etc.
 
Note the all the O&R compact engines & the newer Model 20A have seals made from rubber and also on earlier production engines they used plastic cages for the bearings, these can be damaged by certain additives in some types of fuel/oil.
 
Also if you intend to store the engine for any long period it's recommended to drain all fuel and to put some oil down the spark-plug hole, pull the starter a few times to coat the cylinder & piston and leaving the piston blocking the exhaust ports.
 
I must admit I don’t know if the fuel sold in the UK has ethanol in it, I guess that is something else to look out for which may or may not have harmful additives.
 
David
 
 

I forgot to add that you should check out the carb repair thread if you haven't already and it's a good idea to clean out any old crumbly filter foam from the air filter housing, it can damage the engine if any of it gets sucked in.
 
David

Also I had a go at bidding on a another type 98 engine (I asked the seller what type it was as it looked unusual), I didn't win it but here are some pictures of it showing the externally threaded PTO shaft mentioned in the parts list, together with an adaptor housing I haven't seen before. The adaptor housing looks like was attached to something flat, also note the long stop switch wire.
Anyone seen one like this before?
 




 
David

I've had a better look at the parts attached to the PTO shaft of this engine, it looks like an adaptor kit for something like a propeller, which doesn't help with identifying the original use.
 


 
But I have found a reference in a parts list from 1964 for an externally threaded PTO shaft (part no. 42-39) being used on the type 98 engine, clearly mine doesn't have one, but it could have been changed as someone has definitely had this engine apart, the screws for the induction housing have been shortened too, so it probably had an adaptor plate or housing.
 


 
David

This arrived a couple of weeks ago, a fairly early 1960's type 98 engine, the paint colour is original as far as I can tell, I haven't seen another in this unusual colour.
If anyone knows what tool it may have been used for please let me know.
 



 
The tank bracket & strap needed a bit of adjustment and some screws, now reassembled.
 


 
David

This weekend I've finally had a bit of time to see if I could free up the seized piston, it was left to soak for a couple of days with some oil in the cylinder as I usually do, then I used the flywheel to turn it gently each way a little bit at a time until it was free.
 
Once the piston was free to move, I could safely remove the cylinder without any further damage.
It looks like this early engine had little or no use.
 

 

 
I think I may have a spare con-rod somewhere, just need to locate it.
 

 
Looks like it has the odd sized piston rings, although it shouldn't have according to a service bulletin (last used in 1961 with serial number 006072) as this is serial number 006403, I guess they still had a few left and used them all up.
 

 

 
David

Some new additions to my O&R collection picked up today at a rally in Hampshire
 
Orline chainsaw and hedge cutter, O&R engine with reduction box and a spares engine
 
All well restored by Darmic1, he wanted to move them on so I wasted no time in making an offer !
 
Many thanks to Darren, rest assured they have gone to a good home.
 

I collected a parcel a few weeks ago containing a mostly dismantled early O&R model L engine, complete with a seized piston & bent con-rod.
I will see how far I can rebuild it, I know the cover for the clutch housing is missing as well as most of the screws.
 

 
It seems to be quite rare to find the model letter still on the decal.
 

 
A view of the bent con-rod.
 

 
David