factory

Still available according to their website; http://www.gsparkplug.com/1x-ngk-copper-core-spark-plug-cm-6-cm6-5812.html Seems to be the spark plug used on the 1960's Honda E300 generator. The parts list that came with my Tiny Tor is dated August 1964, the next update of the parts diagram I have is dated November 1965, so a date of around 1965 is probably right. They only used the fourth threaded hole in the tank on the earliest engines, which had a stud/nut fitted below the carb. The different screws fitted here are none original. I guess they never changed the tank design though. Steel bluing giving a black oxide finish is not the same as oil blacking as far as I know, the bluing process involves various chemicals depending on the process used, oil can be used at the end of the process for rust prevention; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_(steel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_oxide Have a look on youtube for bluing of guns or knives to see the process. Looks like there are two methods for oil blacking, dipping heated parts in oil or baking oiled parts, some info here; http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/oil-blackening-rust-protection-84713/ David

Exactly what I thought, I guess original spares were probably more difficult to find before the internet existed, especially in countries with few or no service shops or parts distributors for O&R's. David

More pictures here but can't see the O&R's; https://www.estatesales.net/MO/Salisbury/65281/1732494 I guess a full catalogue will appear on the auctioneers website here soon; https://imankc.com/current-auctions/ David

Don't panic, you don't need to take the spring out, it sits in the centre of the starter reel bearing, if it is that part of course. Could it be a non original replacement for part 131? The carb disc is a very thin piece of pressed aluminium or a loose flat disc on most engines, later ones can have a smaller diameter flat disc glued to the diaphragm. Could we please have a picture of the other side of mystery part. David

I'm not so sure it's from the carb, I think it maybe from the starter (part 131 on the diagram below), but it depends on the exact measurement & thickness, I can't tell from your picture if it is flat or not either. Here are a couple of pictures of this part (listed as crankshaft thrust disk) which often falls out & is often missing too as a result, I did measure one earlier but have been distracted since & have forgotten, will check it again tomorrow. David

The spring keeps the adjustment screw from moving due to vibration from the engine when running, your replacement looks very similar to the original. I guess the NGK CM-6 should be OK as it was running with one before, it's about 2mm longer reach (the threaded part) than the Champion UY6 . I did buy a selection of alternates (AC 104, Lodge C10 & KLG TEN50, all NOS) from the Green Spark Plug Company, but they have mostly all sold out now. There is a error with one alternate listed on their website, the Wipac P4 is too long and is 14mm not 10mm. Yes the engine serial number can help with dating, but we can only estimate dating of engines made before June 1967 when they changed the sequential numbering system to a coded number system that gave the year & month of manufacture. I would estimate your engine dates from around 1965. The engine on my Tiny Tor (which started my collection) has a serial number close to yours (086359), old picture below. There is no information for the paint codes O&R used in any of the original literature I have, I guess they wouldn't help much as you would need to convert them to the equivalent European paint code. Some of the red starter housings on my engines have also faded to an orange/red. Pmackellow on here has repainted some of his O&R's, I think he uses standard rattle cans from Halfords. The air filter & exhaust muffler were not actually painted, they were finished by bluing, look up "gun bluing" for information on how it was done. Kits are available for bluing steel but I've not tried any yet. David

You've done a good job repairing the magneto coil wiring, I didn't bother hiding the epoxy resin at work, but would have used one of the old Humbrol model makers paints I have, it seems to be the only paint that hasn't gone bad with decades of storage. I also found smaller internal diameter fuel line is better, especially as I've not found a source of the thin wall type originally used, it must be available somewhere as I did see some similar (but even smaller) tubing inside a pressure tester from the 90's at work. The suggested fuel/oil mix is 32 to 1 with modern two stroke oils. It's up to you if you decide to repaint the engine starter housing, but I prefer to keep the original paint & decals if possible with my engines. What is the type of the NGK spark-plug you have used? The only thing I've noticed from the pictures in the last post is that you are missing the carb idle screw, it's a #6 screw same as those used on the starter housing but with a thread length of 7/8", it also has a spring as shown in the picture below, it won't stop the engine from running without it though; The lower holes are not used on the Tiny Tiger, they are used for the throttle cable on some tools & the Chicken Power bike engine. Your engine does have the letter B for the tank mount model (you asked about this before) it's next to the serial number in the picture below; David

Very few O&R's that have been used for RC models seem to have been converted for glow, the adaptor/bushing for using 1/4" glow plugs in the 10mm or 14mm cylinders aren't very easy to find, seems people either have to machine one to fit or find somewhere selling them. I did however find one place that has some ready made adaptors/bushings that may or may not be suitable; http://www.thunderboltrc.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=100_183 As these Helicopters aren't exactly common (working ones even less common) it may be a good idea to contact the owner of this one on youtube for advise, reading the comments it seems they aren't a big fan of O&R engines though. There is also an RC airplane that someone on youtube has built using an O&R chainsaw engine, it runs with the original carb & magneto ignition too. I do have a couple of O&R's with different carbs that were used in model boats, maybe I should add some pictures if anyone is interested, one is a K&B and the other maybe a Waltron, both are standard spark ignition & air-cooled. There was also a heavily modified O&R with an Irvine carb sold recently on ePay. I now have (thanks to Webhead) a Tillotson HU carb that O&R/AEP used on a weed wacker, I plan to adapt one of my spare engines to fit this carb and will update the thread here with my progress; David

I've done some resistance measurements of the stator windings of two 110V Tiger Tigers & the 230V Tiny Tor I have. The readings confirm the high/low voltage windings are connected together & everything is centre-tapped from the + output terminal. For the 110V Tiger Tigers the total resistance of all the windings (measured across the 110V outlet) was approx 5.7ohms, measuring from each side of the 110V outlet to the + terminal gave readings of approx 2.7ohms for each half. For the 230V Tiny Tor the total resistance of all the windings was approx 28.5ohms and the measurement for each half wasn't the same (14.7 & 15.2ohms), I don't have another to check the readings against as I had problems with the 230V output being low last time I tried it. I suspect it has a bad connection somewhere. I opened the Tiny Tor to measure the low voltage windings as the diodes prevent measurement from the outside, readings for each half were approx 0.3ohms after deducting the test lead resistance. All the measurements were taken using the lowest resistance range on a quality US made multimeter, which I check against a lab-grade decade resistor box periodically. I used to have a cheap chinese multimeter which was totally useless for low resistance measurements, you got different readings every time using the lowest ranges as the switch contacts are very poor quality. Better readings for the low voltage windings could be obtained using a low-ohmmeter as the measurements are at the bottom end of the lowest resistance range on the multimeter. I do have a nice vintage one but it's currently on the round-tuit pile as it doesn't work. Here is a DaveCAD diagram for the internal wiring of the 110V Tiny Tiger; There isn't much space for the wiring inside, I soldered the wires to the diodes on the Tiger I repaired as I didn't think there was enough room for connector blocks. David

Yes if wiring was reversed, the exposed battery charging terminals would have 110V across them, the diodes are probably only rated for low voltage (so could end up short circuited). David

The wiring for the AC 110V outlet has plastic insulation (probably supplied with the bought in 110V outlet) which rarely goes bad in vintage electrical/electronics, rubber insulation on the other hand always seems to eventually turn to either dust or a gooey mess as you've found. We even had a modern rubber cable fail on a 2007ish Weller soldering iron at work, the inner cores crumbled to dust causing a short circuit & blew the fuse. The two items in the casing with solid non-insulated wire leads are push fit diodes for rectifying the AC voltage to DC for the low voltage battery charging output. These will be connected to the thicker windings of the stator to provide the higher current required for charging. The ground lead is the wire on it's own on the other side of the stator. The AC 110V outlet will be connected to the thinner windings of the stator, be careful not to snap these, you may want to re-secure the cables into the windings with lacing cord as they were before. Thinner cable from a scrap mains lead would have been fine for connecting up these, as the maximum current drawn will be much lower. As for the the thin wires connected to the thicker winding, I've suspected they were as I got strange resistance readings when measuring mine. I will post a diagram of how I think it's all connected up when I've done some more measurements on mine as I didn't make any notes at the time. David

Not sure I can help much as I don't have any O&R's with either of those carbs, a few years ago I nearly got a glow converted engine with the Octura carb, but the seller messed me about (and presumably several others as their ebay account soon got terminated). I've only seen two O&R boat engines with the Octura carb so they must be quite rare. Likewise the O&R with the Du-Bro carb is just as rare. Presumably a similar mixing ratio for glow fuel would be required, what do the modern glow engines of similar size use? Just be aware of early O&R compact engines with the plastic bearing housings as they could potentially react badly with some fuels/oils. The only O&R's that I aware of having problems with glow conversion & nitro fuel were the much older & smaller Ohlsson model engines that were commonly used in model planes, broken con-rods & cylinder head failure being two problems with these engines. David

The generator stator windings do look more of a mess than usual, the rubber insulation of the wires always seems to disintegrate when disturbed, did the wires snap from corrosion too? If you can identify the high & low voltage windings, it should be possible to connect up new wires, if you can find some good condition wiring to connect up to of course. Be careful to not damage the insulation on the stator windings. You will probably need to clean the wire ends of corrosion for easier soldering, I recommend using a lead alloy based flux cored solder (not that modern unleaded solder rubbish, which requires more heat & has known reliability problems, it corrodes very easily too). Tin the ends of the wires with solder before joining together and sleeve any joints with heat-shrink tubing to prevent shorts. Here are some pictures from the restoration of my Tiny Tiger, it required the crumbling rubber wiring repairing, I took lots of pictures before disconnecting the wires and used different colour heat-shrink sleeving for identifying the low & high voltage windings. David

There are two windings in the magneto coil, a low resistance primary winding with a low amount of turns of thick wire and a higher resistance secondary winding with many turns of very fine wire. The two wires connected together are one end of each winding, these are grounded via the metal core of the coil, as they are not insulated they may still be connected together inside. The thin insulated wire is other end of the primary winding and goes to the insulated bolt for the contact breaker compartment, the stop switch & capacitor wire are also connected here. The high voltage end of the secondary goes to the spark-plug, the insulation of this wire looks damaged (heat-shrink sleeving can be used to repair this) and the plug cap is also missing. I would check the resistance of both the primary & secondary windings if you have a multimeter and post the results here. Not sure how easy it would be the open the casing around the two ground wires, you don't want to damage the insulated wire if you try or break the very fine secondary wire. I used to open and repair small potted transformers (which were unavailable/obsolete) at work, the plastic casing could be broken off around the faulty area, gentle use of a small electric heat-gun to soften the potting compound, which could then be scrapped out in small bits to reveal the connections for re-soldering, araldite was used to replace the potting compound to complete the repair. I don't have most of the equipment to do this type of repair at home. The number 151 stamped on to one of the crankcase flanges is the engine type, it represents the engine specification & options, I have a Tiny Tor (same as Tiny Tiger) that also has a type B151 engine. The letters were used on early engines, B is a tank mount engine. There were letters or numbers used for many standard engine types with different options of tanks, various gearboxes, clutch and mounting types. Diagrams & parts lists for the standard types are usually in the master service manual, many manufacturers of tools & equipment with these engines would have ordered a custom specification engine. David

I've also got some parts on the way, it's taken about 4 days to get from the US to the ParcelFarce depot in Stoke which seems quick, it will probably them another two weeks to move the parcel the last few miles knowing my bad luck with them . From experience it can take an extra week or two for international shipping between Black Friday and the new year. David

I don't know what sort of Mylar was used, but they are usually re-usable, I found a good used one yesterday, also Wallfish had some new ones made as I mentioned before. Here are two pictures of the earlier rubber type check valve, I think it's obvious why I now consider this type a "replace on sight" part, sometimes the valve flap is missing or detached. I've been cutting my own gaskets, but do have some originals, I also bought new O-ring seals for the cylinder in the nearest available metric size, took me two attempts to buy O-rings of the right thickness. See this thread for more on that; I would be surprised if Webhead doesn't have new old stock exhaust gaskets too. David

Yes the check valve is the transparent blue plastic sheet gasket shown on top of the diaphragm in the picture (they were fitted to my Tiny Tiger 400), the originals are usually clear (early ones are made from the same black rubber as the diaphragm), some have probably fallen out un-noticed when previous owners have tried to get them working. Sometimes they seem to be stuck to the thicker gasket (both items are part #6 on the diagram I posted. David

How hard to find are the diaphragm arm & spring to obtain? I seem to recall from a thread last year that Webhead had no stock of the spring. Most of my damaged/spares carbs are missing these or have the wrong type of arm, I expect to find more missing carb parts when restoring other engine & tools in my collection in the future. I'm going to order some new check ball bearings on ebay as I've found I don't have any of the correct size for O&R carbs in my spares. I will have to make a roller, it should be possible to make the later style of disc (the smaller one that was stuck to the diaphragm). Please can you confirm if the other parts I mentioned in the last post are missing from your carb. David

A have a few damaged carbs, I will have a look tomorrow to see if they still have the parts needed inside, any of the small parts inside can occasionally be missing if someone has been in there before. Looks like the check ball for the valve will be the larger of the two types used, most are 3/32" diameter except for early ones which are 1/16". An O&R service bulletin recommended fitting a new one during repair, as they had problems with them sticking even after cleaning. Stainless & chrome steel balls for bearings are still available in imperial sizes. I can't see the small roller that sits under the end of the diaphragm arm spring, the size is 0.062" diameter, I did make one for my first engine from a piece of rod salvaged from a broken cassette player. Also I can't see the clear plastic check valve gasket, early carbs had one made from the same black rubber material as the diaphragm. See the picture below showing a laser cut replica, thanks to Wallfish for providing me with some of these. You may want to change the exhaust gaskets, as they tend to leak when reused, not something you want when you've cleaned everything up, I found out the hard way with my first restorations. David

Just a go a making some tank lid seals using a couple of offcuts of gasket paper. Nearest hole punch I have in my kit is 26mm and I used 1/16th punch for the vent hole, took a little searching to find a lid without a seal to test fit it with. Anyone know the best thickness of gasket paper to use? I have gasket paper in the following sizes, 0.006" (0.15mm), 0.01" (0.25mm), 0.016" (0.4mm), 0.031" (0.8mm) and 0.063" (1.6mm) I don't really want to damage any originals to find out. David

I suspect if you use ordinary card to make a seal for the tank lid, it will fall apart when it gets wet with fuel and end up in the bottom of the tank. David

I've looked through my spares and only have the needle & spring, sounds like Webhead has all the parts as well as the correct screws & new carb diaphragms. Sounds like the fuel & internal filter are quite clogged from old oil/fuel mix, I suspect the carb will be just as bad. It's usually a good idea to use fresh fuel mix and drain the fuel mix when these engines are not being used, as well as for long term storage. This didn't always happen, leading to clogged filters & gummed up carbs. I have even had several engines shipped with decades old fuel mix still inside the tank, not a good idea either as shipping companies usually prohibit shipping of any item containing fuel. It would be interesting to see a link to the "lacquar thinner" product Webhead mentioned, to see if we can find an equivalent product in the UK. With the last tank I cleaned I figured out another way to clean the filter, using the fuel/oil measuring kit I have. I originally had a 10ml plastic syringe for measuring small amounts of oil & a 400ml jar with 100ml measurements on the side. After the rubber part of the syringe eventually perished & got stuck with oil/fuel, I searched and found a set of glass syringes (2ml, 10ml & 50ml) intended for medical/laboratory use that wouldn't get damaged with fuel or oil, I also found out that the fuel line could be attached to them. Using the largest one (50ml) & a short piece of fuel line I filled it, attached it to the tank pipe and used it to gently push fuel in to clear the internal filter without damage. Webhead's suggestion using a longer piece of fuel line sounds good too. Webhead is right about the filter screen being easy to damage, it happened with the first one I cleaned many years ago. I ended up adding a very small in-line filter with that one. I believe people have opened the tanks (usually when they are leaky) but then you have to figure out how to open it without damage and then seal it back up again. Not something I've tried yet. Small sheets of gasket paper/card are really available on ebay & other places, see the last post in the attached thread for more info; David

I thought the spring & washer would have been long gone, I will have a look at the weekend to see what I've got, I definitely have a spare needle. The housing sounds OK, they usually only get damaged from over-tightening, causing it to snap at the thinnest section. Yes petrol is good for cleaning the fuel tank, that is exactly what I use. I usually leave some fresh petrol in for a few days, if there is a lot of dirt in the bottom of the tank I also put some nuts in the tank with the fuel and shake it to dislodge the dirt. Pour out the contents and repeat if necessary. You can also check the pipes are not blocked by part filling the tank and tilting it vertically (with something underneath to catch the fuel). David

Is the needle housing OK and have you still got the spring, washer & O-ring seal? (see diagram below). The carb needle from your engine looks to have been modified/extended, the brass nut on the end of the copper section almost looks the same size as the housing the needle screws into. Both the brass needle & housing are quite thin in section and are very easy to break if overtightened. If you still have no spark after checking the contacts, then check the resistance of the coil secondary & post the resistance measurement. The screws for the starter housing are #6-32 UNC Fillister head, the standard length is 3/4" with a longer 7/8" one for the capacitor. The earliest engines had slotted screws and the rest used Phillips screws, one of the military surplus traders on ebay has some slotted screws (see links below), I've not found any Phillips ones available in the UK yet, I have asked Webhead for some more of these as I've run out of them, they are quite often missing. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-32-UNC-Screw-Slotted-Cheese-Head-Fully-Threaded-Length-3-4-F6-/152632238870?var=&hash=item2389972316:g:M7oAAOSwU9xUPkUT http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-6-32-UNC-Bolts-Slotted-Cheese-Head-Stainless-Steel-Length-7-8-W3-/162598124690?hash=item25db9a7c92:g:LrgAAOSwH6lXRDI3 There would have been a label on the steel band on the generator giving details of the output voltages, 110Vac at 300W + 12Vdc for charging being the most common version. I do have a UK version (branded as the Tiger Tor) with a 220/240Vac output, unfortunately it is faulty (low output). The inside of the fuel tank may also need cleaning, dirt can accumulate inside as well as also clogging the internal filter. David

Replacement carb diaphragms are available from either Wallfish or Webhead on here. I may be able to help with a replacement carb needle. I've just received an engine with a screw fitted instead of the needle assembly myself. It's good that the air filter foam came out in one piece, if it doesn't crumble to bits it probably isn't the original, I always replace it anyway as foam usually deteriorates with age. Your engine uses a 10mm short reach spark-plug, the original would have been a Champion UY6, these are still available. They usually need the contact breaker points cleaning, I don't think I've had many problems with the coils (except with really early engines), the condenser can be replaced with a modern one if it is faulty and Webhead or Wallfish have got any spares. I keep looking for a modern condenser/capacitor that would fit inside the original can, but haven't found anything suitable yet. The screws/bolts used on these engines are all UNC/UNF sizes, look after the originals as ones with the correct narrow head (fillister) are not usually found in the UK. I have found some ex-military ones but they are usually too short. Interesting to hear your Tiny Tiger was originally from the Philippines, I can see the original distributors label in one of the pictures, is the generator a 110V or 240V version? David