Ian 2,417 #26 Posted November 21, 2015 Morning all, a small update for you.. Nigel and I have been having fun trying to get the engine running right. Were not there quite yet but certainly heading in the right direction. Changing the spark plug from a long reach to a short reach made a vast difference to the quality of the spark, we now have a stong health spark but we will be fitting an electronic ignition kit to make it 100% reliable.. Although we did kinda have the engine running on the original carb (video coming at some point this weekend), the carb is so worn with lots of play (and air leaks) in/around the spindles that the best name for it is junk! So out of interest we thought we would try a pit bike carb that Nigel had kicking about the place.. As we couldn't find any rubber pipe the right size for a temporary inlet manifold the rubber was removed from an old mower pedal and used The engine wanted to run but as the carb is a bit too small it was never going to work that well... So.. a correct size pit bike carb will be ordered and I will make a steel inlet fannymold.. I have slowly been beating the fender pan back into shape. It came from one of Karls racing mowers and as well as being battered during racing it gained a few extra holes... 61 holes in total! You know it's been hit hard when it has a 1 inch kink in it! Lot's of hammer work later it's looking straighter. And by the end of play yesterday, even straighter with the cracks and some of the smaller holes welded up.. It's hard going panel beating a rear fender pan as the steel is so thick, but I'm really enjoying it 5 Vinnetrow, C-101plowerpower, Stormin and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian 2,417 #27 Posted November 21, 2015 6 neil, Vinnetrow, nigel and 3 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie Smith 192 #28 Posted November 21, 2015 loving it! great work guys 1 Ian reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-101plowerpower 548 #29 Posted November 21, 2015 what type is the original carb? guessing its a bing? might have a look thru my carb stockpile 1 Ian reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diggerjames 543 #30 Posted November 22, 2015 Great project boys , the wheellhorse D250 was based on a gutbrod as memory serves with a Renault engine please correct me if I'm wrong . 1 Ian reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stormin 4,458 #31 Posted November 22, 2015 The D250 was built by Gutbrod and did have a Renault 850cc engine. 2 diggerjames and Ian reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-101plowerpower 548 #32 Posted November 22, 2015 yep, you're right, the d250 is basically the same as a gutbrod 2500, just a different colour and decals 2 nigel and Ian reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel 1,876 #33 Posted November 22, 2015 are thats why the D250 was ugly as well its german Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diggerjames 543 #34 Posted November 22, 2015 are thats why the D250 was ugly as well its german it's a good job it's a Renault engine not a VW engine or emissions would be wrong as well 4 Ian, Stormin, nigel and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian 2,417 #35 Posted November 25, 2015 loving it! great work guys Thanks Charlie. what type is the original carb? guessing its a bing? might have a look thru my carb stockpile You guessed right Koen, it is a Bing.. Hold fire on looking through your carb collection for now, a new carb has been ordered which should arrive today.. Great project boys , the wheellhorse D250 was based on a gutbrod as memory serves with a Renault engine please correct me if I'm wrong . Hi James, I knew about the Renault engine, I didn't know the rest of a D250 was Gutbrod! The fender pan is hard work but it's getting there slowly. To see where the smaller dents are I had to strip off the red powder coating which wasn't much fun as it's hard stuff! I gave the back of the pan a quick coat of blue paint and gave it a light sanding back once it had dried.. The blue bits left are all low spots which need to be beaten out.. Slowly the blue bits are going as the pan gets straighter. This is the corner where the big kink was That's enough about the fender pan, now onto an inlet manifold for the new carb.. Lathe work has been interesting due to problems with both Nigel's and my lathes but we got there in the end.. Starting with a bit of pipe being cleaned up. The inside was bored out a bit so it would be a tight fit on the original manifold. Boring out the mounting flange. A taper was cut so the pipe could be firmly welded on. Like so Now that's a nice bead of weld Back on the lathe to turn the welds down and give a nice flat mounting surface.. A bit of trimming, cleaning, welding and painting later the carb bolts on It's a shame the carb has problems but a new one should be arriving today 7 Alan, the showman, Stormin and 4 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meadowfield 1,900 #36 Posted November 25, 2015 Tidy work Ian.... and Nigel 1 Ian reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel 1,876 #37 Posted November 25, 2015 Tidy work Ian and Nigel cup of tea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meadowfield 1,900 #38 Posted November 25, 2015 cup of tea ahh, you were tea boy 1 Ian reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel 1,876 #39 Posted November 25, 2015 did you do twice as much work? wot ? 1 Ian reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian 2,417 #40 Posted November 28, 2015 Tidy work Ian.... and Nigel Thanks mate ahh, you were tea boy Yeah right And so the engine troubles continue!! Even with a new carb and posh inlet manifold the engine would still not run right, and then I noticed a bubble! For what ever reason there was some liquid around one of the head bolts, and it was bubbling! Only one thing to do.. Yep, start pulling the head off to see if the head gasket had gone! As it turned out the head bolts were not as tight as they should of been and the head wasn't as flat as it shuld of been.. Hhhmm.. Plenty of carbon in there! The valves badly needed grinding back in as they didn't sit to well, also the stems were coated in carbon and crud so out they came for a clean and to be lapped in. With the engine back together it ran..... Just as badly as before! :banghead: It was then noticed that a lot of fumes were being blown out the oil breather which means piston ring problems! Hopefully the rings are just stuck rather then broken.. Time will tell.. Oh... And this turned up and a panel doner for Gut horse! 2 diggerjames and Vinnetrow reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stormin 4,458 #41 Posted November 28, 2015 Pour so diesel into the bore and leave for a while, Ian. That may free the rings if sticking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel 1,876 #42 Posted November 28, 2015 ime not shaw its the rings, we seem to have lots of compression ime realy stumped now, we have done the points, tried 3 carbs, 4 spark plugs, reground the valves in, changed the needle hights and it still will only run on choke for about a minute before it stops, this is the first small engine that i have ever come across in my life that me or some one around me could not get going :banghead: :banghead: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-101plowerpower 548 #43 Posted November 28, 2015 is the timing OK? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ranger 373 #44 Posted November 28, 2015 ime not shaw its the rings, we seem to have lots of compression ime realy stumped now, we have done the points, tried 3 carbs, 4 spark plugs, reground the valves in, changed the needle hights and it still will only run on choke for about a minute before it stops, this is the first small engine that i have ever come across in my life that me or some one around me could not get going :banghead: :banghead: Sounds like coil or condenser breaking down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel 1,876 #45 Posted November 28, 2015 2 coils, three condensers is the timing OK? timing is on a keyway seems perfect 1 Wristpin reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stormin 4,458 #46 Posted November 28, 2015 I agree with Ranger. Try another coil or condenser. Condenser first. Oh you have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wristpin 400 #47 Posted November 29, 2015 Sticky breaker plunger? 1 nigel reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeadExam 1,783 #48 Posted November 30, 2015 I had the same thing on a Briggs, turned out to be a condenser, almost drove me crazy because it was a new condenser I never checked it or replaced it, but Somehow I think it got a back charge that killed it. Spent weeks trying to find the problem, new coil, plug wire, flywheel key, etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
S1g 579 #49 Posted November 30, 2015 You say you've tried 4 spark plugs, but have you tried a different make? I only ask because I had a box of ten new NGk plugs a few years ago that at least 6 turned out to be faulty. Nearly drove me daft as they would spark ok in the atmosphere but started to do strange things under compression. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel 1,876 #50 Posted November 30, 2015 sussed it, and its alive to every one that chipped in, We didn"t have the governer connected, 4 Ian, S1g, Stormin and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
