Anglo Traction

Hope these aren't an incentive to be sitting down on the jobs Norm! .............But,.... nothing to stop you stress testing them on a warm day with a beer or two!.

Hi Ewan, Depending on whether SPA type belts are ok to use with Clutching/Idler pulleys which may be a cause of belt deterioration?, the SPA 732 belt (732mm) is sold as the INSIDE dimension (28.82 inches). Wheel Horse belts are/were measured around the Outer circumference, so a 732 will be greater than 29 inches. Presuming your replacement Pulleys are the same (Pitch) size as originals, and the distance apart is the same, then the belt should be ok. Snatched this off the Web as an example- Regards

Ah!, forgot you'd fitted other pulleys. I suspect you had better stick to SPA Section Belts. The Section is different to 'V' (13mm x 8mm) SPA is 13mm x 10mm. Which means you may have to stick to 732mm. No experience with that type.

Hi Ewan, I suspect that belt (spa732) is only a conventional duty belt. 732 is just under 29 inches. Being of the ilk that prefers to use OEM in these circumstances, I would suggest treating the machine to what Toro calls a genuine belt. The original spec is for your RJ is part number 1567. 4L x 29" . They had 3 grades then (extract from Tor manual) - Modern (metricated) European spec Belts are mainly general use types and have tiny dimensional differences. Quality is probably inconsistent as well. So 60 years later, the only place you'll find a correct belt, is to look West. Search using Toro/Wheel Horse 1567 part number and you'll get several choices. Toro belts have all the modern fabrics etc incorporated and some are cotton wrapped for quiet running. Depends what you are prepared to pay. Only other option is to go for something like this and see how it behaves- - A29-. I'll admit to buying these types for the mower deck and they seem ok, but haven't had a good try out yet. They have all the qualities you mention. You can get at least 2 of them for one OEM, so it's your call really. Regards

I am inclined to agree about it's appearance Norm. I feel it has that simple 'Bolty' look about it. Plus the combination of the colours and bright parts. I've been struggling with progress, as I hit a wall trying to obtain some drive chain which is only used on a few vintage machines and motorcycles. Zero response from two attempts over the last week, then tried another this afternoon where I got an almost immediate and positive reply. So I'm over my last hurdle of finding parts hopefully, but I think I will have to make another obsolete part for the engine, not happy yet?. Have made a little progress and assembled the Clutch/cable/lever, but had a problem with the lock screw gripping the cable tight enough in the lever. Lot of tension in the clutch spring to overcome, so I've made a temporary lockscrew with a socket head to be able to tighten it better- - Decided on the fuel pipe routing, keeping it within the frame and shortest distance. Original route can be seen in the 'as found' pics. Just the Carb end to fix and solder, as this pic was taken when a trial fit was made, the coil position etc is now tidier - As for finding a mower to attach it to, well it did come with the original mower it used to push back in the 1920s and here is a pic of how it attaches- One or two examples can be seen around the show circuits affixed to a mower, or like this example (off the Web) where an axle from a different machine has been adapted to fit- Would be nice to find a set of similar wheels to make an axle up for this one I'm working on. When it's fitted to a mower, the turning circle is enormous. Looking forward to chain delivery.

Would that be the White Oak Alain?. I know you have several varieties there, just wondered also what type of disease has it suffered from?. Most English Oaks only seem to be (rarely) affected by Honey Fungus, or partial 'die back'.

Well, those of you who have been watching this have seen glimpses of bits that don't really mean much. So I have decided to let you know what this thing is, despite having a fair way to go before (if) any mechanical life can be breathed into it. It's 90% there, but still have the drive chain hurdle to overcome. So bearing in mind that it's nothing really spectacular, it is uncommon. This is what it is - This ad is from the Tatler Magazine of Aug 1922. I have other images, but are copyrighted and not for public use. Designed to provide assisted (Ride-on) power to existing, manually pushed lawnmowers at the time. So it can be called the first known British Ride-on that was available to the average domestic household. Earlier large private Estate/Municiple ride-ons were available. They were built by Ransomes, Sims & Jefferies for the MP Co. At the start of this Topic, I mentioned the condition and it's neglected existence, albeit virtually complete. This is what it looked like- Not my pics, but shows it was in a bad state. It's debatable whether to replace some damaged/missing parts like the (left) lower end section of the Fan cover- I suppose it is really part of it's existence, hard knocks 'n' all. What I have found strange, is the varying immunity of certain sections to corrosion. Some very thin metal sheet parts are hardly eroded, but heavier, thicker spring steels are heavily pitted?. All exposed to the same levels of weather. Suppose it's lucky to be able to save/use most of it. Today, I've made up the Cables for Carb controls. Tricky job and I decided to set it up in a way that would be easier to manage. Bolted the Carb to my Lathe tail stock barrel and the Levers to a bar in the Chuck- The inner cables were different length from a donor source and I had make them both the same length and produce new outer bowden cables. Lots of careful measuring, as the 1926 Carb manual says never dismantle the Lever and cables !!. I had no choice. So with a lot of cleaning to get the solder to take on the shortened inner cable, all the ends soldered up and the bits fitted correctly- And relieved to say everything operates/adjusts correctly - Most of the control levers were in a bad state as mentioned way back and showed the end result, but here are a few of what they were like- ...... the Counter shaft - So here is what it looked like as assembly progressed- And to date- If I can get it running, it will be one of only a handful of working examples in collector's hands. Hope to have more updates soon

Well done Ray . Earned your stripes on the refurb. You're one up on me, as you've done a Hydro, which I haven't !. Now you can enjoy it !!. Regards

The answer is 'Balls' Norm! ....................................Yes the item is the original, but I have added the dome to it. Back around Xmas, I observed some Kiddies Ball shaped tins that contained chocolate of some kind. Managed to get hold of a couple and found one without any significant damage. Measured pretty close to the radius, so went for cutting a slice off for a test. First job was to clean off the paint/ink to see what the finish was to the steel (top left). I then had to polish it and measured the amount needed to slice off for a sample and what method to slice it off with ( bottom left)- First go was 3/64"(1.2mm) short, so went for it on the good cleaned off section - Cleaned up and tinned with solder, it was soldered to the original, which was not easy as had to use passive resin flux, but went ok. Had a good coat of fuel proof lacquer and settled for an old small cafetiere s/s gauze filter cut to fit as a dust collector. All done and will go nicely with the now very tidy Carb. Regards

Dragging behind schedule recently, but have nearly finished several parts which should all come together next week for a more bulky update and to probably reveal the ID of it. Just to come back to the carb for the near impossible easy repair, I've repeated an image here that is in the link of the previous post to save any toggling for comparison. I was presented with this dented mushroom Air inlet cover. Originally this was a bright shiny nickel plated cover, but as can be seen, the old 'anger scars' and corrosion is severe- I can't call it a filter, as there is no mesh. It is not possible to get all the dents out. I did consider (briefly) taking the old outer cover off and spinning up and soldering on a nickel silver one. This rear view will show you the lack of filtration and I will probably spring a strip of oiled scouring pad in to cover the holes- And the front, which I was not happy with, where just filling and painting would actually be more work than the idea I had to fix this much quicker. I came up with this and now only requires a coat of lacquer after cleaning up the outer edge - The Cooling fan shroud is of thin cast aluminium and has had a bad hit low down at the front, snapped a piece off and bent everything, also one wrong size nut fitted- Having to make additional spacers so that the bolts do not crush (again) the Ali plate when tightened. I'm carefully heating parts to ease the stresses before straightening. I'm using soap to indicate the temperature and it's going well, should be seen fitted next week. Clutch cable is done but need to trim to length on the machine. Throttle cable (outer Bowdens) need to be replaced (tricky). Seat is finished ready to fit. Fuel pipe is a challenge, as the two different tapered nipples were originally brazed to the old pipe, so I had to cut off the big one and bore out to fit on the new pipe. The smaller one I scrapped and turned/machined up a new one and both will be soldered on this time . Having problems with the final hurdle, namely the drive chains. These must be replaced, the originals were just welded together with rust, as they were removed and left on the seat over 80 years ago, Spec is unobtainable now?, no sign of any old stock, so may have to rob from a scrap/donor machine If I can find one?.

Oh all right,...... 3 weeks! .... Don't do deadlines anymore since I retired. Correct Michael!. Still a lot to sort out, but ordered the copper fuel pipe today. The Carb was mentioned in this topic a while back- Senspray

Not long now Norm. Ailments have now delayed my progress. Only managed a few bits to date. Cooling Fan was distorted, damaged and pretty corroded (see pic 3 of my very first Topic post). After cleaning and straightening, I balanced it up by filing the outer edges. Then coats of primer, rubbing down in between them. After the first coat- The Throttle controls (and cables) on the machine were beyond saving and scrapped. I had to find a replacement. Not the best of condition, but initial clean up found it and the damage repairable- Plating was long gone, so had a coat of paint applied. The black bakelite type plastic lever ends were repaired using original Araldite mixed with lamp black. Final coat of Cellulose lacquer. Other parts were either original plating, or polished lacquered steel and body correctly painted black enamel- Machine had a 7/16" whitworth square nut fitted where it should have a hex nut, so I had to find and machine/file one down to similar shape and size- The finished article and painted fan will show up in the first pics of the refurbed machine in a week or two ............tbc

Hi Michael, I've passed your mower details on via the 'bush telegraph' to someone who can spread the word. Prices are all important, as are any pics of condition. Regards. Richard.

Hi Ray, Afraid I never heard of it . A bit ignorant of the various products floating around these days. I'm rather suspicious of the old 'Snake Oil' type claims for them, but in reality they turn out to be basic compounds or chemicals that you can buy and apply for very little. That stuff is not cheap. I tend to be content with processes that may take longer, but cost very little. Electrolysis for example. A good example Ewan. just a few other different ingredients so they can claim it's their own unique concoction, as you say a bag of citric is obtainable from places like Wilko's . I admit to using a rust converter (trustan and kurust) if I can't get it all off. The Exhaust is done. Surprised myself after patiently tacking and building weld bridges and joining up using 1.6mm rods. Very few spots made it through the thin wall of the neck- Had to break the old spring washer from the captive end cover and replace it with a wide thick copper washer cut and opened to fit onto the rod, then silver soldered the joint. Didn't need to add a seam of weld on the riveted joint, it's good and gas tight. finished it with several coats of BBQ paint. Rubbed it down in between coats and then finally burning it clean with a gas torch to dull red heat- It will do and should last long time !. Not much progress, as still making odd bits not worth mentioning and prepping for paint. The all important original seat actually cleaned up well. I was unsure how it would turn out with the level of corrosion. It still had traces of paint and or primer which could be grey primer and white top coat. Plan is for a light grey top coat until it can be confirmed what colour it was. Very few of these machines still around- Hopefully will make significant assembly progress over the next week.

You will need to have the Model and serial numbers of your engine before you can know what parts you need to obtain. Presume you are in the UK?. Post the numbers here and with a picture of it if you are able.

2nd Shaft was/is a headache. Lots of problems and have had to do the best I can. The boss that the 52t Sprocket is riveted to is fixed to the shaft by a pin. This was sheared in 2 places, so I had to remove the old pieces and make a new one. Strangely, it was nearer to 6mm than 1/4, so I reamed it to 6mm and made a new pin from silver steel and partly hardened. Bearings were a mess inside as with the other ones- This one has a cracked inner race, maybe even from when it was first fitted? - Took an age to clean and flush these out until clean, but when packed with LM grease, they ran quite smoothly considering and they will have to do. Rpm for this shaft is about 750 max. Had quite a wobble in the sprocket, so I tried to straighten it out and got it down to about 1mm deflection. Clamped it to a 1 inch thick steel plate and used gentle leverage- Finished shaft with just a bit of painting to do- Final job on the Villiers Clutch was to replace the worn felt seal shown in 6th image bottom left in post #16. Thought I'd have trouble, but got the old one out. Found an identical sized vintage seal in my spares bits, but was too thick, so I had to slice it. Shown fitted with the old one and cut off remnant- The seal protects the outer cup ball race, which after cleaning and greasing, runs real smoothly . So clutch is ready for assembly now, when I've sorted the cable and routing. The Exhaust silencer/muffler was next. Surprisingly, I managed to undo the remnants of the nut that holds the end plates on and dismantled it- Wanted to to check it over before putting it near any media blasting. Shame one end cap is captive, as I wanted to remove it. This end cap was nickel plated originally and suffered more from the elements than the other. After an initial clean up, loads of little perforations appeared in the neck between the flange and cannister, but the welded areas are strong. I reckoned I could repair this with a new plate wrapped around the neck and weld around the strong points. I've cut and fitted the plate clamped tight with a Jubilee Clip initially for tacking it down. further joint cleaning to do first. Got to practice with thin plate, as I'm not skilled in general arc/stick welding practices - The cannister part is still sound with no holes or thin areas. It's a rolled sheet and riveted with a seam plate inside. In addition to sealing the inside, I'm also going to run a seam along the end joint to avoid it blowing.... can be seen to the right of this image- After this, it will be time for frame cleaning and repairs, before I can fit the engine and see if it will start/run..................tbc

Good haul there Norm.

It's tiring enough shaking it about without prancing around with as well Norm. ............Maracas! . Yes, I do tend to understate. I admit I don't seem to learn when to give up either ............onwards I go............ Finished one of the Shafts. Bearings etc were a mess inside- Combination of dirt and dried grease. Good thing was no rust. Cleaned up all the bits and had a need to bond them into their housings using loctite 638 while fitted to a 1 inch dummy shaft (25.4mm). The makers must have drilled one of the Housings (left) in error as 3 of the holes are not tapped. Helped with I.D ing though. Oil seal plates that carry the felt seals are matched to the housings. Seals are still good ! - It was good that the bearings are still usable. 97 year old SKF RL8 double row self aligning cleaned out after a lot of work. Packed them out with some Graphite based CV Joint grease I had laying around. Quality of the housing castings are not that great, one on the right is full of blow holes After cleaning up the sprocket and making 2 new Keys, parts were painted and assembled when dry. Finished this one now- Next shaft will not be so easy......tbc

As Wristpin says, there is much of what you are looking for already here. If you use the 'Search' box (top left), you will find many. Just using the word 'Osprey' throws up this number of posts- If you use 'more search options', you can select Topic titles only search to give you a list of Topics on the same issues with this machine. The Opsrey is a self powered machine, so most topics on it are in the 'Other Garden Machines. Some links to manuals in threads are broken, so if you need any more help just ask. No problem using an old thread to post/ask a question, as it prevents the same questions/Topics being asked over and over again.

Good project there. Did a quick search for it and throws up several restoration builds of the same unit on 'U' bend toob

Behind schedule with the Plummer Block (pillow) bearings, lots of cleaning out. Meanwhile, I looked at the frame items etc that were borderline scrap or broken. Well , when you're presented with these examples, you wonder how you're going to replace them?, then try and repair- The Eye Bolts look handmade or Smithy'd and what I would call Agricultural engineering, as opposed to Precision engineering. The bolts were saved with careful work loosening off and straightening, plus, I was able to cut off the overlong rotted sections. The channel formed washers on the small eye bolts were virtually rotted away, so I had to think about making replacements. The problem with broken brass Butterfly wingnuts was solved by finding a stronger 1/4" whitworth steel one . Making the special washers mentioned were shaped more or less using an old toolmaker's clamp and shown with a partially formed washer bottom right- A bit of normalising heat and manipulating them to shape produced these washers that should pass as identical to original when fitted/painted- Another job of saving scrap was the Clutch Lever. I'll post an image of what it was like later when the identity of the machine is revealed. New pivot pin and cable pinch screw had to be made. The two clamp screws were rotten, and so I replaced them with nickel plated ones of the same age that came from the drive unit of an old wind up gramophone. Presumed the lever was nickel plated originally, but just coated with Caliper Paint now- Should make better progress now and media blasting parts now available. Should be done with one of the shafts and bearings over the weekend......tbc

+1 for skinny rims. I'm lucky as I have both wide and narrow WH wheels for the 72 Raider now. The track width on the front with the 6.50's fitted is 2 inches (51mm -ish) less than post 75 WHs. Nice work Norm look's tidy . Are you going to 'Sticker' it up , or leave it naked ?.

Brief update. Wasn't happy that the outlet bushing in the tank would solder properly, so I removed it to clean it up and re solder it- Prepped and painted a few parts, tank and straps finished. A lot of work involved to reach this stage. Also one of the control levers finished, where I had to make a new limit strap and rivets, as it was too rusted (see 3rd pic in post #13) - . Tank and straps have had a coat of fuel proof lacquer to protect it and I'll give it a final 'shake up' with stones, kerosene/redex to swill the residues out. I've got 2 tank lids, one original and one a few years younger with it's own measure for the correct oil to petrol ratio !. Fuel line will be done near the frame completion stage. Shaft bearings next and look's like I'll have to make several fixings including 'Butterfly' Wingnuts as several of the originals have had the wings broken off, now unobtainable. tbc

Thanks Norm. I won't keep the mystery for too long now, as I will need to start on the frame etc soon. I'm sure some visitors/Members will know what it is. Cyril Grange's book was a significant reference for many years. first published in 1929 and the ninth edition in 1954 (mine's the latter). I have the 2nd edition (I think) as an 'E' book which revealed the clutch info. Brief update- Working through the power unit and associated parts, I started checking out the Fuel Tank. An irreplaceable item for this machine, so I was pleased to find it bone dry inside. A thin layer of dried up petrified fuel/oil was able to be scratched away from the inner surface. I went to my 'Scope on a Rope' to check it out. Images are not great quality as copies, but gave me a good view- So I started to check the outside soldered joints and the level of rust penetration to ensure no perforations- Nothing that can't be put right cosmetically and with only 2 small/shallow dents in one end and the dents/marks where it is fixed to the frame. Only thing to repair is the outlet boss, where the Tap/filter must have been hit at some time and bent/cracked the old lead soldered joint- Tinned Steel plate is not very thick, but certainly the plating helped keep the bad rust at bay and happy with the initial external clean up- So started on inside using pea sized shingle dry to start with and does it well - Will do several more 'shakes' with this, then when I've sealed and repaired the external bits, I'll change to fluids with the shingle and a final washout. The tank is 1/2 imperial gallon (2.27 ltrs). Fuel pipe is 1/4" copper pipe which I will need to replace (to save repairs and cleaning)......tbc

I was surprised it is still a significantly popular material, primarily due to it's durable stability. Having shoved the engine to the back of the bench with a lightly cleaned Flywheel cover fitted after tapping out a few dents- I moved on to tackling the Clutch. This is the very first Villiers version of a unit that fitted directly onto the output side of the crankshaft. It was called the 'Villiers Free Engine Clutch' designed to allow Motor bicycles to be push started (no kick starts then) and then draw in the clutch to allow the rider to bring the machine to a halt and mount before pulling away smoothly/coming to a halt with the engine still running. I had a real challenge finding anything on this unit until I found a sectional image of it, but with no nomenclature- It was a start, but I had much trepidation about attempting to dismantle it without at least some info. I found only a brief reference to it in the books I had. After much searching, I actually found where the above pic was taken from. Some guy had taken it from an earlier publication (1st or 2nd edition) of 'The book of the Villiers Engine' by Cyril Grange . It described the whole thing, operation, dismantling and assembly in detail . Obsolete since the early 30s, I was on a 'no hoper' with spares. So I set to and began stripping it out. Major job trying apply forces to undo the Bell cover (N) despite having Knurling to show it was only hand tightened. Tried to release spring pressure on the plates by adjusting the cable tension, but overdid it and the cable pulled out of the aged nipple inside. Succeeded with same process as the Flywheel removal and used 'Sisal rope' with a tourniquet and injected some oil where upon all came apart. Multi layers of alternate steel and Bronze plates transfer the drive loads (7 of each) some are damaged and broken (not clear how?) - All removed and retained in their respective positions for cleaning and inspection, so they all go back the same way. A broken and bent plate was clearly put back and used like it, as wear is visible. Lot of work to make new ones, so will flatten and repair them as needed- Bronze plates are the 'Drivers' and steel ones are 'Driven'. I had dearly wanted to strip the Counter shaft completely, but it is impossible to release the Clutch body and it's retaining nut from the tapered end of the shaft- So I am having to work around the assembled shaft parts in situ for now. Maybe when/if it has been run for a while, it may ease up?. Cleaned all the constituent parts and quite impressed with the design. Felt Oil seal is rotted where the cable lead out exits, but will try and insert a new one- Cable adjuster spanner flats are rusted to nearly round, so made a new one with lock nut- Aged it by oil staining and roughing it up with a few burrs Confident I can get this bit working as it should, so onto the next bits